Dilemma with new kitchen/dining/island layout

3 months ago

Hi all

I would really appreciate some advice on our kitchen/dining room layout and if there is room for an island. See attached the plan below. The kitchen width is around 3m and the length is around 7.7m. The space off to the right is the living room which in turn has access to hallway/front door. The patio doors are going to be 4m bi-folds but we can move them along that exterior wall as they've not gone in yet (just small patio doors in at the moment). I'm guessing that an island cannot be less then 800mm in width with some seating and that means we wouldnt be able to fit counter units either side due to clerance? I've tried to design on ikea planner but am really struggling to fit everything in (including washing machine and drier). Any advice on where to start would be very much appreciated.

Featured Answer

rinked

3 months ago

A U-shaped kitchen would work much better in the available space.

But.. If that's the lounge on the right, have you considered moving the kitchen there? Because a traffic line through a lounge isn't fab.

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Comments (21)

Isla Cherry
3 months ago
The clearance for an island is between 900mm - 1100mm so 3m width very tight. I just don't think it will work. If you take the minimum clearance of 1800mm and add 600mm for unit depth you are only left with 600mm width for your island which is not ideal. 900mm is better visually and is more useful. A 600mm wide island would allow no room for a small overhang or seating. I think a double run of units (galley style) is probably the most efficient use of the space you have. You will have space for a decent sized table at the end. I would design a u-shaped kitchen using the whole of the right hand wall and as much of the left hand side as possible. You may want to reconsider making your bi-folds so wide as it affects your kitchen options as far as wall space is concerned. I would move the bifolds up towards the corner to give you more space for your kitchen. You could have a small peninsula if you so desired.
sunshineband34
3 months ago
Would you consider creating a separate utility room at the bottom of the kitchen to put your washer and dryer in? You could then have a door outside from the utility room. You would need to move the bifold up. It is hard to see how you could fit an island in. Maybe if you had your kitchen in the top left with an island separating it from the living room and then have a table between the kitchen and utility where the smaller bifold would need to be. Not sure if you have enough space for all of that though!!
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I see what you mean, It's a good idea in theory, however, practically, I don't think it's going to work, and you will end up ruining the nicest room in the house. There are no walls that remain unbroken by doors or windows, so where are you going to put units and unbroken worktop space. They can't go on the left as there are three doors. There's a door on the right, which although you could put a unit and a bit of worktop back right, it wouldn't be very big, and the biggest run of wall goes straight down to the glass doors, so you probably can't and wouldn't want to go straight up to them. You could move the door into the hallway from the front end to the bottom end by the patio doors and this would give you a better run of wall. If you put an island in the middle, 5' into the room to give yourself room to walk in and gain more worktop, it'll only leave you with around 6' at the other end for a dining space. However, i'd still advise getting a kitchen planner onboard before you start, as i'm not convinced the room is big enough to achieve what you want with the available wall space, and it stands a good chance of spoiling a very nice and elegant entrance to a house. The other big problem is the plumbing, there isn't any currently in that room, so you'll need to dig up the floor for drainage and almost definately that of either the utility or one of the bathrooms! I vote for keeping the house exactly as it is!
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Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
We currently have a utility room and toilet at the bottom of the drawing which is being knocked through to make more space for kitchen (toilet is moving to off the hallway). Yes I definitely think the bi-folds need to be moved to start at a corner to create more wall space. Feel like 3m is quite wide for a galley style and we’ve always wanted some sort of breakfast bar (hence the island). I will try and see if I can create a space with a peninsular. Thanks for the suggestions!
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@isla do you think an island would be ok if no units either side of it? So the island would finish say halfway down the room then the units start. So you’d have a 900mm island with 1050mm space either side (internal wall one side and bi-folds the other)
Isla Cherry
3 months ago
I'm sure that could work. Also if you keep your units all down one side then you could have an island just with units down one side. Its very popular at the moment to have a bank of units mostly tall and an island in front like a pass in an industrial kitchen. That might be feasible. Why don't you get a plan to scale and make some 600 sq rectangles (if you use CAD or sketchup apologies) and play around with the layout? That will give you a really good idea. An alternative is to get some cardboard boxes and do a mockup in the space. See if the walkthroughs feel comfortable. Try full height units on the right hand side and across the bottom and then see if an island fits. Try and work in 600mm modules for an idea of size. Think of freestanding islands too where the size isn't defined by unit size.
PRO
Pearlosa
3 months ago
An island will definitely restrict the flow in the space - I'd suggest something like a breakfast bar on one end of the kitchen - perhaps the end closer to Area 2. By all means you can make it wider and benefit from the storage that comes along with this too so you have the space you would normally enjoy with an island.

As suggested above, it would definitely be helpful to mark it out in the space with masking tape to see how you like the space.

Hope this helps.
Rhys G thanked Pearlosa
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@isla thanks for those recommendationsand taking the time to answer. Just so I'm clear on what you mean, 900mm width island (with or without seating underneath?) then a bank of tall larder units on the right that wrap around on the bottom of drawing? Thanks in advance
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@rinked Thanks for the mock-up. What software did you use please? I've been using the free ikea kitchen design tool but find it quite difficult to use. The living room is indeed on the right, but my wife doesn't like the idea of walking through the kitchen to get to the living space. Just out of curiousity how would you fit everything in if putting kitchen into the living room please (the window on the far right actually goes out as a bay window but can't draw it in). We're quite flexible on ideas and it's quite hard to actually visualise what would work. Funnily enough our building did feel that putting the living room at the bottom of the kitchen would be his initial vision.
Isla Cherry
3 months ago
@rhysg thats exactly what I was thinking. You might also have space for stools then if you wish. Its easy to make it up out of 600 modules or other sizes. If you require a hob on the island then I would go for a downdraft extractor type. I would use the longer wall for full height units, fridge freezer etc. and then keep the units 900mm (or whatever height you decide) on the bottom/shorter wall to give you space for your sink and maybe a hob or range cooker too depending on what you decide. If you go modern then eye level ovens are probably a better option.
rinked
3 months ago
A sideways island with 60cm deep units and a 30cm overhang looks silly, imho. When going this route, i'd suggest 60+40 with chunky side panels (so a 100cm block). It would have a 90cm aisle on the window side and 120 on the work-side (because dishwasher open, etc).

I used an old version of chief architect for the floorplan, ikea planner is nifty, but their units are 65cm deep and have a restricted variety in width.

Let me try to place the kitchen in there, the bay window likely has a lower sill as well, right? That could make it more difficult indeed.

I personally prefer the U-shape, as it is much more practical and has all the storage and countertop space you'll need (and think it would look amazing once done, with the cooktop in the center, your large garden doors and some windows above the sink).

What style/look do you have in mind?

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rinked
3 months ago
Had to remove the corner units when moving the kitchen into the livingroom area, which would imply ending up with 3 appliances under the countertop and little storage space. A 90cm drawer unit inbetween the tall units would return some, but it would look less grand than the U..
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@rinked Thanks for the software tip - Chief Architect has a free trial so I think i'll gibe it a try. Interesting that you've managed to fit kitchen into the Area 2 space. My wife really wants the island idea to work even if it means no seating space bar stools, but I do like the idea of a U-shaped kitchen with a breakfast bar/peninsular included and a window above the sink. Just find the space a bit difficult to visualise and make decisions on - if only it was a bit wider! We quite like a sort of modern neutral kitchen (quite like the Elmbridge Pebble Kitchen at Howdens)
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@Isla thanks for your suggestion. If I understand, there is enough space for an 900mm island with seating and also the full height units adjacent to them all along the long wall on right hand side? Or do you mean along the long wall after the island has finished? Thanks for your opinions!
rinked
3 months ago
A subtle semi-floating bar perhaps?
Isla Cherry
3 months ago
Personally I hate island seating. Islands look much cleaner with no or minimal overhang. You also need space to pull out the stools. I am with your wife. I love my island. You could fit a 900mm wide island with 600mm tall units on the right if you wanted to. That would leave you with 1500mm for clearance. If you kept the left wall clear then the island doesn't have to be centred in the space so could be more to the left towards the bifold doors increasing your walkthrough space.
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@rinked @islacherry thanks very much for all your input. I think we’ve managed to narrow it down to a rough design utilising the right hand wall and a peninsular (see photos below) this allows for seating, extra storage and worktop space. Interested to get your views? We had it mocked up at Wren, just not sure if we require a bit of extra worktop space somewhere - maybe extending the peninsular by a bit to fit an integrated bin unit underneath?
rinked
3 months ago
Having all the worktop on that wall would imply you'd always be standing in your own shadow.

Does your garden door have to be in the center of the wall? Will it be the only light coming in? Would an extra window be an option?
Isla Cherry
3 months ago
I would have the tall units on the long wall and the base and wall units on the shorter wall. Its your kitchen and only you know how much storage and worksurface you require. I find it annoying to cook or wash up with units above me. I'd rather have a full height and low level cabinet combination with no wall units when possible.
Rhys G thanked Isla Cherry
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
last modified: 3 months ago
@rinked yes at the moment that is the only source of daylight except the bay window in living room. There is scope to put a window in but only on the same facade if we fit the bi-folds up towards the dining table. We'd still be in shadow then? We could put some lighting under the high cabinets?
Rhys G
Original Author
3 months ago
@isla cherry yes I will definitely give that a try when we go back to Wren as an option and see how it looks. Thank you
PRO
SPEAK
3 months ago
Hi Rhys,

Hope you have made some decisions, regarding this project that will suit the way you will use and utilise this space.

Have you thought about a central island which:

- Could be customised and tailored to match your kitchen cabinets as well as the dimensions of the space (slimline)

- Is moveable (and lockable once placed centrally in the kitchen area) and could be neatly stored on the wall (as pictured). Take into account the opening of the cupboards on the back wall opposite (you would have to move the central island to accommodate this request!

- In addition it could be moveable that slots and locks under the breakfast bar area, with a narrowing to one side to accommodate two breakfast bar chairs (or as suggested on the posts a breakfast bar on the wall mounted in the area near the wine rack back wall)

- Ask Wren: to provide a few variations on the colour cabinet design - so you can obtain a feeling of how a lighter colour cabinet would feel in the space also!

Hope this helps!