What is going on here? More shower troubles. WTH!

10 years ago

Another problem in my barely one-year-old shower.

It looks... like they have siliconed over top of the grout in my shower where it meets the fiberglass shower pan. And it appears that the silicone is failing. Which leads me to believe that moisture is getting behind it and causing it to fail... (not to mention the giant grout line, next to the tiny grout line). Grrrr.

This worries me... because they've already come and rebuilt a good portion of this shower, and this is kind of how it started the last time. The history on this is that my builder used 'green drywall" and "green waterproofing roll-on membrane". I wasn't happy about it, but it was done before I could stop them, and I said it would leak... and it did. They came back, ripped out the tile on the pony wall and part of another wall (this time they used Kerdi-board in the repair spots, which is great). However, this new problem is on the opposite wall which they didn't repair.

I guess my question is, what is causing this, and what needs to happen? I'm just trying to get an idea of what I need to say to the builder when I call them about this.... AGAIN.

My impulse is to tell them to come and tear this whole thing out and do it right like they should've done in the first place.

I'm so mad. Advice, help or liquor appreciated.

Featured Answer

PRO

DL Design Studio

10 years ago

Your shower should still be under the builder warranty. Call them and inform them of the problem and the past history. Document everything with photos etc. Get it done properly. Typically subs working in a house development are paid on how many units they complete within an allotted timeline. So a lot falls through the cracks. Be very firm. Do not "ask" for them to solve it. Convey that you "expect" them to solve it.

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Comments (34)

Teri
10 years ago
They should have done it right the first time...or at least replaced all the greenboard with kerdi board the second time around...call them again, don't wait! Green board, as I understand, is not the way to do shower stalls; kerdi board is commonly known as the way to go when remodelling or installing showers. Good luck, fight hard til they get it right!
kimdee24 thanked Teri
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
It is normal to caulk between the grout and the tub, but they should have used clear caulk in my opinion. Plus, it looks like they did a really sloppy job with the caulk--it should only be about 1/4" wide. They spread it too thin and too wide. You do know that caulk has to "cure" for at least 24 hours (48 hours is better) before you use the shower, right? Have them clean all the old caulk off, clean it with denatured alcohol, and make sure they spread it fairly thick with no more than a 1/4" bead, using a wet finger to force it into the small crack between the grout and the shower pan without smearing it all over the tile.
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kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
Nancy... it WAS clear caulk. This is clear caulk that has failed. I know it needs to cure, and it certainly had plenty of time to do so between install and my possession date (weeks), so it's not lack of cure time that caused this.
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
Then it was because it was spread way too thin.
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
It almost reminds me of how Elmer's glue dries clear, but when gets wet turns milky?
kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
Yep... kind of like that, but the opposite I think... Because I didn't notice it until tonight, when I was on my hands and knees cleaning and it hasn't been used since this morning... so I think when it's wet, it clears up... but turns white as it dries out. This is new... I'd have seen it before now.
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
So sorry you have to go through this aggravation.
kimdee24 thanked Nancy Walton
kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks, Nancy.... I will call them tomorrow and get them out here again. I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that (if I can't get them to fix this properly, I mean), this shower is coming out one way or another in the next few years. I know they have already fired their tiling sub-contractors, but it doesn't do me a lot of good if I'm still left with a potentially leaky shower. I am just praying that this is merely a caulking issue and not indicative of bad things happening behind the tile again.

Appreciate your comments, thanks again.
mefor
10 years ago
What idiots kimdee!! I hope you read them the riot act. In the meantime, this is for you.
Hiccup ;)
kimdee24 thanked mefor
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
Ooh, mforr, my favorite single-malt Scotch on the rocks with a splash! I'll drink to that!
kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
That helps, thanks Michele! My shower might leak, but I won't give a crap anymore! LOL!
Teri
10 years ago
Alrighty, now that we're all, fuzzy, lol...just one note; I am buying a "new" home (long story) - (no seriously it's a really long story lol)...anyway...I did some research on builders because I'm a Holmes on Homes fan and I've seen lots of horror stories about new homes...anyway...I discovered that the builders subcontract everything (this is coming from one of the builders themselves)...so you can get a great crew or a crappy crew from one house to the next in the same subdivision; the jobs are "bid" out by the builder. On top of that, it's not the same guys putting in the showers as doing the electrical, carpentry, etc...so the quality of work can vary within the home as well! Thus, your shower issues. Sounds like they were a semi-skilled crew. I say duke it out, with the big boots on! m0.om
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
Rah, rah, rah! Sis boom bah! I guess the Scotch is going to my head, hee hee.
kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
I love Mike Holmes! I wish he would come and fix my shower! Good luck with your new house Teri... and STAY ON TOP OF THEM all the time. If you see something you don't like, or don't understand... ask questions, and don't be afraid to stand your ground when you have to.

The sub that did the tile in my house has (in the past) had a great reputation, but they've been nothing but trouble for this builder. Not to excuse the builder by any means, because they should be on top of these guys making sure they do things right.

What really burns me... is that I voiced my unhappiness with the green drywall/waterproofing crap, and was reassured endlessly that it would be fine... I called the day I noticed it, and by the time I got down here it was done... and sure enough, less than six months later, they're here ripping my shower apart. And a year later, maybe I'm looking at rip-out round two...

But hey... I'm just a girl. What do I know? LOL

Please pass the scotch!
Robin W
10 years ago
I'm on my way over with the wine.
kimdee24 thanked Robin W
kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
Awesome Robin! I'll get the glasses out!
Nancy Walton
10 years ago
YESSS!
olldroo
10 years ago
Having Houzz problems today - sorry to hear kd, I didn't realise you were having so much trouble. Your builder has been great to date so I hope he co-operates. Don't forget he does owe you for the free advertising.

Goodness it is nearly 5 o'clock here too .................... BOTTOMS UP!!!
kimdee24 thanked olldroo
rinked
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Could be moist or grease or even soap/degreaser residu behind it.

I had the same in my new shower (new concrete, new tile, etc.), only it was me to 'blame', I did the caulking.. After three months black moldy spots came through.. Cut it out and saw water behind it! So I placed a small air heater in there for a day or so, degreased it all and put new caulk on. It's still there and looks fine.

Builders/installers are often too easy on the caulking-part of a job, but it's one of the most important things you do when finishing off a water-resistant surface. Let's hope he'll properly fix it.
kimdee24 thanked rinked
S. Thomas Kutch
10 years ago
I don't like putting grout in the last joint adjacent to the tub or shower pan......grout is a non flexible product and you're putting it against an element (tub or shower pan) that unless it's properly installed will flex.....the result is the seal between the grout and the tub or shower pan breaks. The standard short cut is to grout that joint and then slap on an insufficient bead of clear sealant. Throw in the wrong type of grout and you have the perfect storm brewing for failure.

When I do a shower or bath tub tile job, before I grout I'll put a spacer in the last joint before grouting.... this way i keep grout out of that joint and get a good sound terminated end of the vertical grout joints (square, solid and even with the bottom edge of the tile). Once the grout has cured, it's then a simple procedure to pull the spacer out, prep the joint with a degreaser ( denatured alcohol), install the properly sized backer rod and then the sealant. A properly proportioned sealant joint is A (width) to A/2 (depth)...........problem is this takes time and with the majority of subs the time is money. The normal routine is the tile guy sets, the tile, comes back the next day and grouts.....and then in a couple of hours (does the other tub or shower or cleans up his tools, goes to lunch, takes a smoke break) then they slap on some smear of sealant. Looks good, but doesn't last.
kimdee24 thanked S. Thomas Kutch
mefor
10 years ago
Good luck finding a sub to take that kind of time and effort. Even the better tilers who do a good job with the rest of it and charge you an arm and a leg, still won't want to take the time for that. Besides, what a nice bitof insurance that they might have another paying job when you call them back to fix it and you don't realize they caused it in the first place. Hard to overcome that kind of mentality. Better off trying to learn to do it yourself as STK describes it and know its done right.
kimdee24
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks, STK -- I wish they would have done that, as you described. But they didn't... so what is the fix here? If they just clean it up and recaulk, it's just going to happen again in six months.

Adding to the problem is that the space between the tiles along the shower pan isn't the same. Giant gap on the first two tiles, and tight gap on the corner one, and around the other side of the shower.

I notice that other caulking in the shower is also turning white.

I hate this shower.
Teri
10 years ago
Good luck Kimdee! I hope you're able to get the shower fixed once and for all!
loves2read
9 years ago
So what is/was the final word on this shower problem?
Did they just rip it out and start over?
PRO
Grout Works of Central NJ
9 years ago
Find a grout repair company. They are accustomed to resolving these issues. I imagine if you find someone you feel is knowledgeable the builder will happily pay for his work to have you off his back. Just be sure to confirm that before you hire them. I find builders are very happy for me to clean up the smaller issues they don't want to deal with like this. Tile guys many times don't want to deal with all these issues especially when builder is squeezing them already...
PRO
Ellsworth Design Build
9 years ago
Old post
Lauren Cooper
8 years ago
I have a similar problem and the bathroom is not even done yet. The contractor showed me that the grout is cracking just at the tub line and is blaming it on the "cheap" Americast tub, which he says is too flexible and is moving when you stand in it. He is willing to fix it, but says the only way is to open the wall behind the tub and push more concrete, or some other material in under the tub. Does this sound right? I can see that there is already lots of foamy stuff under there supporting it. @S. Thomas Kutch would love to hear your advice on this one. It's so frustrating because otherwise the bathroom looks beautiful and he has done wonderful, careful work. But I don't think he's worked with an Americast tub before.
olldroo
8 years ago
Lauren - put a post directly on S. Thomas Kutch's home page, he may not see it here.
User
8 years ago
Did he not place the tub in a mortar bed for support? That join should be caulked as well.
PRO
Ellsworth Design Build
8 years ago
Ahh the foamy stuff. I suspect he used spray foam. I also suspect that if you read the instructions for the tub it will expressly prohibit spray foam for that purpose.
PRO
PTG Construction Inc.
8 years ago
Grout between an acrylic tub and a wall will always crack. The tub will flex and the grout can't move with. Even with the best tub installation the end result is inevitable. Silicone needs a perfectly clean surface to adhere to. Even a fingerprint is enough for it to fail. Don't grout the bottom unless you can use a coloured silicone.
Lauren Cooper
8 years ago
So what is the solution?
PRO
PTG Construction Inc.
8 years ago
It would seem from your description that what ever repair they did to the first area should be applied to this new area.

What is going on here? More shower troubles. WTH!

DL Design Studio

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