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Building a Home
andrew_bailey41

Flat Paint Required For New Construction?

Andy
7 years ago

We are planning on building a new home and our builder is telling us that the entire house interior must be painted with flat paint. They are saying this because the eggshell or satin is a moisture barrier and flat is required to let the home breath and allow the new wood to dry out to prevent moisture/mold issues. I have never heard of this before and am wondering if this is necessary and normal for new home construction?

Featured Answer
  • PRO
    Multi Drywall & Partition, LLC
    7 years ago

    Odd statement from the builder - never heard that before.

    What the builder could have said which would have been a little more truthful is this:

    1.) Flat paint hides more drywall imperfections. Then you can paint it with a better grade of paint a year later and that second layer of paint will further bury drywall imperfections.

    2.) Builders do have valid reasons for wanting to use flat paint: the problem with drywall is that it is subject to the underlying lumber. If the lumber moves, the drywall will crack. Lumber moves when it isn't well dried out. Often this movement occurs after the homeowner moves into the home. If the lumber moves, the drywall cracks. If the drywall cracks, it needs to be fixed and then repainted. Flat paint is easy to touch up after a drywall crack - you usually just need to paint the area that was repaired. Satin paint shows so many more imperfections that you have to repaint the walls.

    3.) During the construction process, there are nicks and dings that need touched up prior to closing the house. Flat paint makes this process painless for the builder. If you use a higher grade paint, often an entire wall will need to be repainted for just a small drywall 2" repair - multiply this by all the walls in the house and builders fear having to repaint the house. Builders are scared of having to continually repaint entire walls and entire rooms due to some small repairs, dings, dents, etc.

    4.) From the homeowner's perspective, the downside is that flat paint is horrible to try to clean with a rag. So the livability of flat paint isn't great.

    5.) In the metro Detroit market, you see the lower priced homes getting flat paint, the mid priced homes getting egg shell, and the high custom homes getting a satin or better. All trim is semi gloss - that's just a given.

    6.) In the metro Detroit market, the lower priced homes get built very quickly (often 60-90 days) so there really isn't enough time to allow the moisture leave much of the lumber so you have a higher risk of having warranty drywall cracks (again, cracks create a huge risk of repainting). The large custom houses take a lot longer to build, and often the builders spend a lot of money on climate controls, so the longer build time gives the moisture a lot more time to leave the lumber. The lack of moisture means no movement, which means no drywall cracking, which means no risk from using a higher grade paint.


    Comments (44)

    • missouribound
      7 years ago

      How was it spec'd in your bid?


    • millworkman
      7 years ago

      The contract wording will rule.

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    • User
      7 years ago

      I also have never heard of such a thing. The better (and shinier) the finish, the more that flaws stand out.

    • One Devoted Dame
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Say what?

      I think you're being fed a line... :-) I could be totally wrong, but it seems that your builder (production/tract home?) just doesn't want to use anything else because it costs more. I have never heard of interior paint allowing a home to "breathe." I mean, really, the paint stops the "breathing" while sheetrock and drywall don't? I call BS, lol.

    • User
      7 years ago

      Funny stuff.

    • Andy
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      Ok, it sounds like this is definitely not a normal requirement. I don't recall flat paint being in the contract, I need to re-read it.

      I don't think its a cost issue. We found out the flat paint requirement when we inquired about painting a couple rooms ourselves. They are fine with that, we were planning on buying our own paint, but they will buy the paint to make sure it is the right kind. We don't want to go through the trouble to paint a few rooms custom colors if we have to do flat. They said after a year it can be painted eggshell etc.

    • One Devoted Dame
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Sounds like they want you to wait a year (after some kind of warranty expires, maybe?) before you possibly discover less than perfect craftsmanship... Along the lines of what Mr. Ichabod Crane mentioned.

      It also sounds extremely odd to me that there's a concern over the right kind of paint. Is that something your builder told you?

    • cpartist
      7 years ago

      Check your contract and make sure they use primer before painting. I'm guessing they may skip that step.

      I have never heard such a line of bull hockey puck. It sounds to me that they are cheapening out on paint as flat is cheaper than eggshell or semi gloss. In fact woodwork should be painted with semi gloss and NOT with flat.

    • cpartist
      7 years ago

      It also sounds extremely odd to me that there's a concern over the right kind of paint. Is that something your builder told you?

      My guess is they're worried about a better quality paint clogging their sprayer.

    • One Devoted Dame
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Agreed with CPArtist. No flat paint on baseboards, especially!

      Flat paint is a total booger to keep clean, especially if you have any kidlets or pets. I'm in a rental right now with flat paint (in the kitchen, too, no backsplash), and I'm gonna *have* to repaint the place before I move. :-(

      Good grief, does everyone spray paint now??? Whatever happened to brushes or rollers? lol

    • Andy
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      The wood trim will be semi-gloss, just the drywall is supposed to be painted flat.

      Yes, I have kids, that is why I don't want flat paint. I am going to find out about primer.

    • One Devoted Dame
      7 years ago

      Ohmygosh, seriously, yeah, you do NOT want flat paint anywhere with kids, you are absolutely right!

      Don't know how many you have, what ages or sex, but I have mostly boys. I even wish the ceiling was painted eggshell (the entire house is "textured"), because guess who decided it would be fun to use red construction paper as a gigantic spit wad? In the stairwell, of all places!

    • User
      7 years ago

      I call BS too. I despise flat paint. My builder used flat and I knew that going in and I only lived with it for a few months before I had a wonderful professional painter re-do the entire house. It was amazing to me how much better the house looked with a professionally-applied satin/eggshell finish on the walls.

    • Renee Texas
      7 years ago

      I call BS. We specified satin in our contract due to all the kids/dogs/etc in our home at this point in life, and our builder just noted it, and said we'd go over the price when we met to sign. No comments about appropriateness as far as technical considerations.

    • just_janni
      7 years ago

      Yup - flat hides the drywall imperfections. Semigloss will require a higher level of dry wall finish / or they will be back to fix a lot more punch list items....

      "required" ha!


    • BoomerSooner
      7 years ago

      Without asking for it, our last builder painted our house all flat. We didn't think much of it until the marks began showing up EVERYWHERE. The dogs toys would hit the wall, people would run into the walls, etc. Then the kid came!


      What was worse than the marks was the lines that began showing up in the bathrooms. The moisture from the shower made all of the previously hidden paint lines show up. It was the worst around doorways and windows where the painters trimmed it out. I have now learned that flat paint in a bathroom, and for the majority of house, is a no-no. Our next build will definitely have at least eggshell.

    • worthy
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      How any so-called builder can say that with a straight face impresses me to no end.

      When I renoed old houses, flat white paint was the rule for the simple reason that it camouflaged all the imperfections in the aged plaster. Semi-gloss in kitchens and bathrooms.

      You are best to avoid high-sheen paints and dark colours on any but a Level 5 finish.

      But if your walls can't take light shades in an eggshell finish without tape and mud lines showing through, time to rethink who's doing the drywall.

    • homechef59
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      The builder is blowing smoke up your skirt. The glossier the paint, the more difficult it is to hide imperfections. It's as simple as that. If semi-gloss is used, the painter will have to spend a lot of time prepping the surface for paint. Time is money.

      Once we bought a house from a builder who only put primer on the walls. When we asked why he didn't paint the walls, he responded that the owners would want to use their own paint colors later. He was one crappy builder, btw. Glad we are rid of that house.

      Flat painted walls cannot be washed with soap and water. The advantage is if you have more of the paint, you can touch up a wall with the flat paint. Semi-gloss can be washed. If you have any marks or dings, you cannot touch up with paint unless you paint the entire wall. The touch up will show up.

      The good news is you now know to question everything this builder tells you.

    • Pensacola PI
      7 years ago

      I would be shopping for a new builder. Comical.

    • cpartist
      7 years ago

      Honestly I'd be worried about what else he's hiding.

    • Pensacola PI
      7 years ago

      cpartist

      Honestly I'd be worried about what else he's hiding.


      Absolutely, great point.

    • bry911
      7 years ago

      Honestly, I am not sure whether I would be more upset about the obvious lack of integrity or the builder assuming I was that gullible. Good for you not being that gullible.

    • User
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      "flat is required to let the home breath and allow the new wood to dry out to prevent moisture/mold issues."

      In certain climates, exterior walls are designed to allow moisture to escape to the interior side of the house instead of the exterior.

      The contractor has indicated that to be the case for your house. You might want to verify that condition with someone else but, if it is true, the interior finish must be adequately vapor permeable.

      Drywall is very permeable (20 to 90 perms depending on the relative humidity) and so it flat latex paint (27 perms). Semi-gloss latex paint is much less permeable (5 perms) but might still be OK if it is less permeable than the exterior side of the wall.

      Of course, this issue only applies to walls, not the trim and has nothing to do with appearances.

      Flat paint usually looks the best for interior walls but in order to be able to clean it (for children and pets) eggshell or satin is often preferred. It is quite possible that one of those finishes is permeable enough for your house but you need to verify that with the designer of the house. We know nothing about that.

      Andy thanked User
    • One Devoted Dame
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      So is it more common to use flat paint, as a convenience for the builder, to hide substandard drywall, inadequate lumber drying, or poorly done foundations? As in, what is the real underlying problem that flat paint just tries to conceal? Seems to my (uneducated in this area) mind that the issues have everything to do with the quality of stuff under the paint, not the paint itself, then, right?

      Just trying to understand. I'm currently hunting for architects, so I won't be dealing with anything like this next week or anything, but I do rather enjoy the education. :-)

      Edited to add: I was typing at the same time as JDS; thank you for that info!!! In which climates is that done?

    • bluesanne
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Is your builder also limiting your color choices? I bet they buy in quantity or have a great discount beyond the usual contractor price for a specific paint.

      I much prefer the look of flat or matte paint, but if I had known then what I know now, I would have purchased stock in magic erasers -- they clean without removing paint. We have a very small house with a very big dog (Great Pyrenees), so rub marks are a regular thing.

    • User
      7 years ago

      Ask the builder for the permeability rating required of the interior side of the exterior wall. I suspect an eggshell finish would be permeable enough to meet the requirements and it is also possible that different brands of paint might meet the requirement in a satin finish. We can't advise you since we don't know the design of the exterior wall or the climate.

      Andy thanked User
    • just_janni
      7 years ago

      And actually - both Behr and (the Lowes brand) have a decent "scrubbable" flat paint. I have a blind dog that gets goober-y NOSEPRINTS everywhere. I have painted in a high quality flat and it's been fairly bulletproof. I can wash the whole thing down / scrub to get off the marks and goobers / slobber from food / head shaking, etc.

      So - you CAN deal with flat paint - but it's pretty thick- probably REALLY hard to spray.

    • Andy
      7 years ago

      I'm not the OP, although I share his name, but I would think that if this the position of the builder before you've signed the contract, there's probably a good chance he's not bullshitting you. That said, any time my builder tells me something, if I don't understand the what or the why, I ask him to explain. So, have your builder explain in greater detail why the walls need to be permeable.

    • whaas_5a
      7 years ago

      Go with Sherwin Williams Duration Matte if you can. Stuff scrubs like gold and hides imperfections. Its a nice contrast with the semi gloss trim.

    • Andy
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      Thank you for the info JDS. The home is in VA, so zone 4. The house is going to be standard stick built with 2x6 walls and fiberglass batts. It will have a vapor barrier on exterior walls with vinyl siding and brick front. I will definitely ask what permeability rating they require and for some additional explanation.

    • sklka
      7 years ago

      I think the builder wants to be able to do a punch list later on in the year, and be able to touch up the paint. Having him purchase the paint, and require flat makes it easier to do a punch list (he can touch up the paint).

    • john g
      6 years ago

      The reason builders insist on using flat wall paint is it's a way for them to cut corners, significantly. They don't have to do a higher level of drywall finishing, and flat wall paint can be touched up without having to repaint a wall corner to corner during building. More expensive homes are generally not painted with this system. Most people will not be happy with the results. Yes, flat paint does allow easy touch up, it blends in when it dries. But it does not hold up well, especially if you have kids, and doesn't clean well to remove scuffs. A much better system on new construction is a coat of drywall primer/sealer and two coats of an eggshell finish paint, some prefer a satin in the kitchen or bath. Another problem with the flat paint system is, usually shortly after moving in your walls are scuffed up, and you try to wipe them off, flat wall paint does not clean up at all, and many just don't like the look of flat wall paint,,so they repaint shortly after moving in with a better quality finish, eggshell or satin, and then they realize how pitiful of a job the drywall finishers have done. And now the higher sheen paint makes them more visible. It's more difficult ( not impossible) to fix these drywall finishing mistakes after the walls have been finish painted. Hopefully the level of finish on the drywall isn't really bad, and you can change to eggshell and be happy. Builders of more expensive homes do not generally cut these corners. Another thing better quality builders do is use oil base ( true oil base requires mineral spirits/ paint thinner for clean up, if not allowed in your state most have a modified water clean up oil base trim paint) finish paint on all the trim. It looks really good, and holds up really well. But, it takes more time to apply, and most average home builders will not take this additional step. If your builder disagrees, ask him why it's the system in higher priced homes.

    • worthy
      6 years ago

      Ask the builder for the permeability rating required of the interior side of the exterior wall.

      JDS's subtle way of smoking out the builder's line of B.S. (OTOH, subtlety wasn't his strong suit!)


    • suser123
      6 years ago

      Think many painters do just a tinted primer and call it flat paint finish. Our 2009 spec built house did that. Our 2017 house they tried but eggshell was listed as standard when we went under contract. So insisted on eggshell. We got to see the whole house done in the tinted primer. It looked nice. But the eggshell looked so much nicer. It was a huge difference overall.

    • One Devoted Dame
      6 years ago

      This brings up a question for me....

      We closed on our tract house about a month ago, and the flat paint is awful. It's a good brand (Sherwin Williams), but it looks and feels like cloudy water sprayed on the walls.

      My husband's research led him to decide to prime *all* painted surfaces in the house before we completely repaint everything (walls, doors, baseboards, ceilings, etc.), because the builder's "paint" is so bad. Seriously, if the kids lean up against the wall and rub a shoulder or something, the "paint" comes right off on their clothes.

      Does tinted primer do that? Does it sound like watered down paint? What the heck is technically on my walls? lol (That last question is largely rhetorical.)

    • john g
      6 years ago

      I'm not sure what your contractor did where the paint didn't bond, and would come off if your son's just rubbed up against it. I've tried to tell a friend several years ago not to let their builder use flat wall paint, but they didn't want to go against the builder, shortly after moving in they had the whole house repainted. Now my daughter and her husband are just now having a new home built, but they didn't want to say anything, so, we'll see how long it takes and I'll repost later. Their home is not to be complete until late Dec., or after the 1'st of the year.

    • suser123
      6 years ago

      One devoted dame - Good chance you have sprayed on tinted primer. If you can find out which local sherwin williams they got paint from they will tell you what was purchased for your house. They were able to find ours looking up our lot number / development. Or may be under builder / painter with your last name for the job.




    • andria564
      6 years ago

      Our house was painted with BM Super Spec in flat (walls are textured), the paint is 11 years old and we haven't had a problem. I have tried satin when repainting bedrooms and don't like it with our textured drywall. However, I agree with the above flat on smooth walls = lazy builder. I would watch anything he is involved.

    • worthy
      6 years ago
      last modified: 6 years ago

      flat on smooth walls = lazy builder

      Au contraire!

      Anything less than a Level 5 finish will inevitably look flawed when covered in a shiny surface; and worse yet with dark colours and under direct lighting. But the same homeowners complaining about their imperfect walls on their $300,000 tract home will of course not pay for the upgrade. Not so incidentally, the mandatory government warranty programme I built under did not recognize nail pops and the like as "defects" requiring "repair."

      If your home is framed with dimensional lumber (i.e., 2x4, etc), for the first year or two or more as the wood dries and accommodates to other stresses you may get screw and nail "pops". So if you use anything other than flat paint, repairs will require repainting whole walls. That said, I've still used eggshell on my personal homes because any repair will be a lot less troublesome than living in an entire home being repainted.

    • houses14
      6 years ago

      I lived in high to semi-gloss interior walls with semi-gloss trims homes.

      The new built last year, I requested flat paint walls even my builder was kept asked are you sure? you don't even wanted eggshell at least? I said no :-)

      i preferred the flat one. I think the gloss looks cheap :-)

    • artemis_ma
      6 years ago
      last modified: 6 years ago

      I definitely want eggshell or satin in kitchens or baths. I can deal with flat elsewhere.... (usually). Eggshell never looks cheap if done right.

      Flat required for new construction? Something smells odd about that.

    • worthy
      6 years ago

      When I was single, for my own home I used only flat paint on the walls, semi-gloss for trim, kitchens and baths. Come family, come sheen!

    • david
      3 years ago

      Most of these comments seem to be from home owners and people who are not familiar with residential construction, and in particular, interior paint in general. I am. There are such paints that act as interior vapor barriers, and a lot of this has to do with the area of the country the home is built in. Believe it or not, there is a 'science' to building new homes. Climate has a lot to do with it. However, generally speaking, flat interior wall paint is less expensive and does hide more minor imperfections than eggshell paint. If a 2000 sq. ft. home takes 40 gallons of paint for 2 coats, at $5/gallon more for eggshell, thats $200 more. Not a whole lot, but.... I used to superintend for national top 10 track builders, and every dollar counts. You get what you pay for, so to speak. Now I am a custom builder. Quality improves. Materials improve. Finishes improve. But I still watch the bottom line and work hard to control costs, both for me and my customers. Eggshell paint is hard to touch up. Usually my painter has to repaint a whole wall to blend things in if someone has caused a blemish to a finished wall. Lately we are finishing the ceilings and trim with 2 coats, and the walls with 1 coat. After every sub is out of the house, and I mean every sub, my painter comes back, removes cover plates, etc, and does a 2nd coat. Still costs me more. Better job. Better finish. Homeowner happy, usually (lol)! Some homeowners even willing to pay for 3rd coat. Again, custom home, not tract-built. Look up paints witch act as vapor barrier also. It is out there. Been there, done that. I want to build the best home I can for my customers, and provide as much knowledge that I can in doing so. TY


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