Paint samples on wall vs white poster board totally different

10 years ago

I am in the midst of swatching paint for family/kitchen. The problem is the samples look completely different on the wall vs white poster board taped up. What is considered more accurate for what the color would be? It's totally throwing me off!

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Vertise

10 years ago

Here's an example of how background or surrounding colors affect how we see colors, relative to each other:

Example, same color in the middle:

Here is a link that might be useful: color theory swatches

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Oct 19, 13 at 23:56

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Comments (25)

joaniepoanie
10 years ago
What color it's your existing wall that you are painting the swatches on....my guess is that is what is throwing you off...I would think the poster board samples would be more accurate.
nellie79
Original Author
10 years ago
The walls are a gold color. I've posted a pic of what I am seeing - both swatches are valley forge tan. The room gets a lot of light.
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nhb22
10 years ago
The thing that sticks out to me like a sore thumb is that neither sample has a good coat of paint. You/we are seeing through both samples and can see the white poster board and the gold paint. You need to put two full coats on to tell.
lascatx
10 years ago
Agree. It's not that you are getting two different colors but that you are still seeing two different pre-existing colors. Neither sample has enough paint. You might even want a primer over that gold, but either way, 2 coats of paint and what you have isn't enough paint to count as one good coat.
Vertise
10 years ago
This looks like a color theory demonstration. One sample is surrounded by a bright white, the other by the gold. So they will look different from each other.

The other problem is that the samples are not evenly coated. You should put two good, even coats of paint on. The undercoat color of the wall will also affect the layer over it, so you need more than one coat for good coverage.

Putting samples directly on the wall can leave your wall with a splotch area, as the paint in that area is now thicker. I would limit yourself to sample boards. Try one whole wall first before committing to the whole room. But that gold could cause a lot of interference!

Also, they both look gray here, not tan. How does it compare to the color swatch? Sometimes those sample pots are way off to begin with.
nellie79
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you for the info. Ill try more evenly coating it. The color here is valley forge tan by bm. I thought the white board would be more representative, but they are SO different it concerned me with what I would eventually end up with.
Vertise
10 years ago
Another thing to help you see the color better is to cover the whole board. Don't leave a white margin around it, not even a small one. That can throw off how you see the color.
annkh_nd
10 years ago
I had a similar experience recently, as I was choosing a color for my new kitchen (BM Putnam Ivory, which is a beige). The old color was also a gold (not as dark as yours). I painted 3'x3' samples (2 coats) on 3 walls, and no matter what time of day, what wall, what light, they all looked gray. I didn't see any gray on the sample, in the can, in computer images.

So I got a sample of a different color, and painted samples next to the previous - effectively covering the gold on two walls. The Putnam Ivory no longer showed any gray. There was so much interference from the gold, it threw off the real color completely.

I went with Putnam Ivory, and I love it - but it sure took some work to make sure it was right.

FWIW, I painted a poster board, and wasn't at all impressed with the way it looked (that got 2 coats as well).
Vertise
10 years ago
You might head over to the Paint forum. Funcolors might have some ideas how to get around seeing this paint color in the room when there is such a strong color already on the walls.
mtnrdredux_gw
10 years ago
Wow, Snookums, great visual.
Baroo2u
10 years ago
Ok, this is kinda off topic, but any idea what the original color is?seriously off
rococogurl
10 years ago
The phenomenon is called simultaneous contrast. It's a basic in color theory classes and it can make you nuts. There is a color study example plus a video on the link that shows how this happens and is quite astonishing.

Not every color will mutate like that. The ones most susceptible are muted colors which contain a good deal of gray but especially lavenders, greens & yellows. The gold with the tan that the OP posted is a prime example. Both muted and mutable.

As a result, I've taken to painting at least two huge color boards with a new color, at least 24 x 36. I used to paint one but now paint two and tape them together from the back. That gives about a 2' x 6' swatch that will represent the color much better.

If there is a corner, I suggest painting the same color, taping two boards together and wrapping them around the corner, one on each side. The larger the color swatches the easier it will be to see the new color.

Here is a link that might be useful: Simultaneous Contrast example & video
Tmnca
10 years ago
You need to get a real coat f paint on both samples they are barely covering one coat it's streaky and transparent! Put another good coat on.
PRO
Lori A. Sawaya
10 years ago
Lots of times I think women think of paint like make up. If you were trying lipstick, eyeshadow or nail polish color swatches like that would be just fine. Even for artist's paints it would be fine to swatch like that because the thinner areas would show the color undertones (if any) nicely. So, that's simply how many of us are used to trying out our colors.

Architectural paint is different. All the points that other posters have generously offered up are true. I've done a bit of research and testing with regard to how people process color during the sampling steps so I have a few more to add to the list.

Size of the samples matters most if there are edges and corners. In other words squares, rectangles, rhombus :), or whatevever. If the color sample has edges and corners, it's going to affect color perception. This is not new news. Acknowledging that shape and color are related goes way back. One classic POV is the Bauhaus/Kandinsky/Shape Theory which in summary postulates that colors and shape are deeply connected.

Applying similar thinking to paint/color could go something like this: just because color samples and chips have always been squares/rectangles doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea. Just because that's the way it's always been done doesn't mean that's the way it should be done.

When you're sampling paint colors, what you can not control is disproportionately larger than what you can control. And that sucks.

Since the list of what can be controlled is short, I maximize what I can. So, the substrate I use for paint samples is a circle and it's a 30%ish neutral gray. It's more visually ergonomic than squares/rectangles and unlike stark white gray aids in building full, true color opacity.

Take away the edges, corners, and the white board undercolor and it doesn't matter so much how big the actual color sample is, the surrounding colors become significantly less influential, and even the crappiest quality paint sample in just about any color will cover in two to three coats.
Pam Fitzgibbons
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I'm having a similar problem and it's completely infuriating! I'm looking for the perfect gray with some interesting blue/green undertones. I started with chips, then graduated to painting swatches on the wall. Once I had the swatches on the wall I realized how having 7 swatches near one another was throwing off my perception. I managed to narrow down to three and then painted on larger poster board so that I could move it around to different walls. I finally fell in love with one of them- hooray, a clear winner! Or so I thought. When I put the posterboard swatch next to the swatch that I painted directly on the wall, they looked different. I gave the wall swatch and the posterboard another coat (the wall is currently painted in builder paint, an ivory color, barely off-white) and they still look different! I want the color I see on the posterboard, not on the wall! How can they look different?
sis2two
8 years ago
Years ago rococogurl advised me to use the large foam poster boards painted in your sample color. It makes all the difference in the world! Some even advise leaving a white boarder around the poster board which works too. Then tape it to the wall with painters tape on the back and view it at various times of the day. You'd be amazed how different it looks on a larger board rather than say an 8x10.
Vertise
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Having white next to the color can really throw your perception of the color off, too. It is all very difficult to work through! I used small drywall sample boards from Home Depot. I think they are 2x2. You also cannot rely on the sample cans. Those things are totally off and a huge waste of time and money. The small swatches can be off too. It is all just a very sketchy process with lots of problems and variations in sampling and a multitude of variables affecting things.
PRO
Lori A. Sawaya
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Having white next to the color can really throw your perception of the color off, too.

Oh white is the absolute worst, IMO. The reason why you should never, ever view paint color swatches anywhere near a white surround is because white WILL make the color look bigger, weaker and darker.

In other words, comparing a paint color to white or on a white background/surround will trick your eye so it is not able to sense a color's full chroma. You'll think it's less colorful than actually is. White will cause you to underestimate the intensity of a paint color.

Just FYI, comparing a paint color to black or on a black background/surround will trick your eye so you sense the color as smaller, lighter, and stronger than it actually is. Black will cause you to overestimate the intensity of a paint color.

A neutral gray background/surround is the best color for viewing, comparing paint colors.

If given a choice, I would always choose BLACK for viewing/comparing paint colors instead of white. Because the #1 reason people give for not liking the paint color they chose is that it turned out way more intense than they thought it would.
Vertise
8 years ago
Good points!

What do you mean by making a color look bigger or smaller? Do you mean the object they are painted on will appear bigger or smaller?
PRO
Lori A. Sawaya
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
No, not about an object or physical bigger and smaller.

Rather it's about perception. Visual perception and a sense of space and volume.

Bigger in terms of color attributes is typically associated with the feeling that a color is "too much" for one's own color tolerance and sensibility. Living with a color that feels too big for the room has a similar feeling of trying to walk a mile in a pair of high heels that are two sizes too big for your feet.

Smaller in terms of color attributes is typically associated with feeling that a color is "too subtle" for how one wanted to change a room. The resultant feeling of choosing a color that's too small for a space or an individual's color tolerance is "why did we even bother to paint? It feels like nothing, I wanted more oomph".

When you "test" colors on a white or black background, those stark, dramatically achromatic backgrounds interfere with your ability to sense the smaller/bigger character of a color. I'll post three images that show how round swatches shift in appearance on black, gray and white backgrounds.
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
All those circles of color are all the same?? Wow, that is VERY educational. Goodbye white posterboard! ETA: the painter I used last year was very mad when I painted swatches directly on the wall. He said it ruins the paint job because of the paint buildup and that the finished color will NEVER be consistent when there are swatches on the wall.
PRO
Lori A. Sawaya
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
All those circles of color are all the same??

Yes. The same 12 circles of color, just on different colored background. Each one is a real life paint color.

Even more interesting (IMO) is each circle ofcolor has the SAME DEGREE OF GRAYNESS. So the grays from the green, purple and blue hue families are no more gray than any of the others - they are equal (pretty much) in terms of grayness.

Many make the mistake of thinking that gray can only come from blue, green, and purple hue families. Obviously, we can see from these 12 circles that that is not correct.

It can be more difficult to detect any degree of colorfulness, harder to spot the hue parent of grays from the green, blue and purple hue families, but that does not make those colors more gray than the others.

He said it ruins the paint job because of the paint buildup and that the finished color will NEVER be consistent when there are swatches on the wall.

It's true. The swatched area will inevitably telegraph thru final coats even if the edges are sanded down. All it takes is for the light to hit the swatched area at just the right angle.
PRO
Barbara Jacobs Color and Design
6 years ago
I'd recommend you use a foam roller and TWO good coats of paint. Think of your samples as a tiny version of your FINISHED walls. Also: do more than one, like minimum of 2, ideally 4, pieces rectangular to be showing a larger size. What you do NOT want is to see any white left around your test color. You want to create an actual, "viable sample" of what the finished wall might look like, ideally something you can reposition and view from one room to the next. SO plan to do multiple colors, looking at each room from another. Hope that makes sense.

Using poster board will work but you have to prime it first. Ideally use a low-odor oil base primer (yes there are good ones out there). Any waterbased products applied to paper (like poster board) will warp it. Too funky, annoying to work with and in no way will you get a reasonable result.

Above all--whether for interior or exterior - do Not paint swatches right on the wall. I could carry on about why this is a bad idea but for now I will take a chance and say..."Trust me..." (if you dare!)
PRO
Barbara Jacobs Color and Design
last month
Since that original comment some great products have emerged. A few years ago actually.
1. Mighty boards
2. Small wall
3. Samplize.
  I recommend you explore all 3
  3 and make your project fun, not work. ‘Enjoy!
  Thanks for reading my original 2017 note!🙂

Paint samples on wall vs white poster board totally different

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