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Design Dilemma
hzdeleted_31032740

Critique of floorplan for home in rural Victoria

User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

Hello All :)

First time poster here but have been reading and absorbing for a few weeks!

Our family of four (mum, dad and two boys under seven) will be building a holiday home in rural Vic - Barwon Downs - which is in the foothills of the Otway Ranges. We're only in our late 30s but there is a high chance we'll retire to this home so we want to make sure it has accessibility in mind just in case (wide hallway, 870mm doors etc).

We have a flat 1.2acre site that has a dwelling envelope of 14m x 58m (envelope located to the South East of the site). The 58m boundary runs East-West so we have great Northerly orientation. There is a Category 1 road on the East boundary so our design has that in mind (e.g. no windows facing that way).

The site has farmland views to the West which we'd like to take advantage of.

We require as a minimum a kid's room that will comfortably fit two king single bunks, a parent's bedroom, a decent size laundry, place for the boys to get out of muddy clothes after a days MTB riding without getting the house filthy, a study to allowing remote working, covered outdoor area and a double garage plus carport. We want to design a house with passive design principles and use as environmentally (and occupant) friendly materials as possible. We have a BAL29 rating and need onsite sewerage treatment + rainwater harvesting.

Here is a rough layout we came up with - any advice would be much appreciated. We will need to engage a designer or draftsperson to do a proper design & plan to size / orientate it properly, guide us in material selection, minimise material waste etc. I'm also going to the speed date a sustainability expert soon to get some advice on all things sustainability.

Many thanks!


Note: the length of the dwelling envelope isn't to scale in the pic below. The width (14m) is though.

Featured Answer
  • PRO
    MB Design & Drafting
    8 years ago

    If you have two younger kids now, in later years they'll be wanting a bedroom each. So I'd look at 3 bedrooms rather than bunking in together. The rooms don't need to be big just separate.

    The first plan is a better starting point for thermal efficiency with the large north facing living areas.

    Having said that without knowing the site in detail it is quite difficult to comment as we are only guessing. I would certainly get a design professional on board ASAP. They know the local laws and legislation. Things also look different on site even when viewed initially on Google earth for example...... Also all designers these days must take into consideration material waste and thermal efficiency as a priority.

    BAL29 isn't too bad either. I have had the authorities change it to a higher rating when the plans are in council however, so I'm always wary of taking it (and anything else...) as gospel.

    Comments (29)

    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago

      This is an alternative plan we have, which I think I like better. The hallway along the bedroom area will allow us to use concrete floors or internal brick walls for thermal mass. I think the outlook to the west will be better too.

    • jmm1837
      8 years ago

      Okay, I realize this is a holiday home so you can make a lot of compromises at this stage, including a single bedroom for two kids that will be in their late teens before you know it.

      However, if you're thinking it will be a retirement home for yourselves at a later stage, then I can't see plan 2 working all that well. Speaking as a senior in a new house that is working very well for us, and is a bit similar in layout to plan 1, we like the short distance between the master bedroom/en suite and the living/kitchen/al fresco areas. We have a study nook between bedroom and living area, and a "theatre room" as well (my, that sounds grand) but the spare bedrooms/bathroom are at the other end of the house, so they are usable (and with privacy) for guests, but not coming between us and the spaces that matter, which are our bedroom, the core living area, the laundry and the al fresco area. I'm not all that keen on the bathroom layout on plan 1 (who wants to sit on a deck looking at a bathtub) but I think in general it's more where you'd want to live when you're in your 60s than the other design.


      User thanked jmm1837
    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago

      Thanks so much for your advice :) It's a good point about teenagers and not wanting to share a room - they'll probably be wanting to bring friends down too so to have them in their own room will be beneficial. We'll aim for two smaller rooms instead of one bigger one!

    • MSWLE
      8 years ago

      Something I always look for, is where are the children's bedrooms located to the Alfesco /outdoor living area and inside living area. Also the area that guests leave from to go home in relation to the children's bedrooms. If you are entertaining in the evening when the boys are supposed to be sleeping, this may disturb them if they are right next door. Also, how far is the kitchen from where the car is parked to carry in the groceries? I agree about the extra bedroom for the boys as they will want their own eventually. Can you place two bedrooms together but with cavity sliders between so they can be together now but closed for later. I also like jmm1837's ideas.

    • Gill OB
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      We're currently building in NE Vic, a bigger house with similar principles. Our kids are 13 and 15. Definitely agree with above comment about moving children away from alfresco area! Maybe you could swap yours and the childrens bedroom in your first design. Have a look at Lifehousedesign which is based in Castlemaine, they have a good website with a nice 3 bedroom flat roofed plan, I found it browsing through the web and obviously too far away for us to use! Also Modscape have lovely simple designs to look at. Our house is very long and narrow rectangle with main bedroom and ensuite at west end, open living in middle, then other bedrooms, bathroom, laundry and garage at other end. It's north facing with views to west via lounge/dining jutting a metre forward from rest of house. We plan to shut off kids end of house when they have left home. Keeping it simple is the key!

    • User
      8 years ago
      My only comment is on your (good) idea for the big laundry. In my experience living here on a rural property, everything outside will come inside, so that "mud room" laundry is good (I wish ours was bigger). The only thing I'd suggest is that a design that puts the main bathroom (or a shower at least) proximal to that laundry entrance is good too. Also you might want a good area for boots and jackets and scarves and hats at that entrance - it's easier to strip off or put that everyday gear on there in the air-lock/laundry/mud room each time you want to, say, take some garbage out to the bin, than have to dress up and down elsewhere.
    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      Gill OB we are just down the road from the Modscape factory so have visited a few times, modular will work very well with our dwelling envelope (long and skinny).

      Thanks again for all the fantastic advice, we've never built a home before so it's really good to hear from others what works and what doesn't.
    • User
      8 years ago

      Your nor westerly alfresco area will be almost unusable on hot afternoons. The overhang will be useful shade for the living area in Summer though.

      I like my East windows , they let in Winter sun from dawn till 10 ish on cold mornings. Can you incorporate one in the bedroom corner, if you don't want to see/hear the road, frost and double glaze it.

    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      Thanks tribletrouble, I've had one go at trying to convince the other half that it's not a good idea to have it facing West.. hopefully our future designer has more luck!
    • User
      8 years ago

      Simply incorporate another alfresco area , even a small sitting area, for a couple of lounge chairs, on the other side, or use the carport.

      basic principle is vertical shade on the West in the hot months. The sun in the west is low.

    • sujo20
      8 years ago

      If u like the western views, why not put the master on the western side, where the lounge is in plan 2, (lounge replacing dining, dining replacing kitchen), pushing the kitchen back into the L shape so it can overlook the dining, still getting the view. Also, I would have the front door opening onto the hall, not your living space.

    • sujo20
      8 years ago

      Also agree with TT***trek, western facing Alfresco doesn't work here (Qld), thought it might be different in Vic

    • User
      8 years ago

      Can you build a room in the house to be a bushfire refuge. Bal or no, situated in the foothills of the Otways, the fire can race down the hill to you very fast.

    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      TT we would leave in a bushfire and not stay and fight. Our neighbours to the right are only BAL19, we were given BAL29 as the neighbours two to the left havd a huge cluster of private "forest"!
    • User
      8 years ago

      Check out U shaped courtyard houseplans for inspiration. Face the courtyard to the North, if you want the western view, achieve that with tinted west windows, and rollashutters. Courtyards are great on rural blocks, as they shield from the wind.

      Have 1 metre to 1.5 m solid eave over the courtyard on north side, after that have metal louvers running parallel to north wall of house. look up google for angle to place louvers, for maximum sun getting into your house in winter, but blocked in Summer. Stratco make systems for this.

      Can put up a temporary fence across courtyard to keep the kids from wandering off.


      https://www.google.com.au/search?q=U+shaped+courtyard+house+plans+in+Australia&client=safari&hl=en&prmd=isnv&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=W9V3hHCm4JS9YM%253A%252CJ4eLm4ocyP3v_M%252C_%253BCh2KgDPpXM3uuM%253A%252Cm6X0q915ncYusM%252C_%253BvlAdOCedpQQg8M%253A%252CR5pOQQyNI28nOM%252C_%253B92KYdrN-2ZQE_M%253A%252CZUbqSavwy4XueM%252C_%253BLK6AwtauKLJTcM%253A%252C-ADutcLBwPcVgM%252C_%253BH1DKm0lR6Wp08M%253A%252C6QLw1TOAGMgznM%252C_%253BMfEmx_s14DsNOM%253A%252CP5jsqLT3w2ulrM%252C_%253BxbwoFOEMeh93uM%253A%252Cz1NQjeODgET9GM%252C_%253BycXAXs9nuGR_mM%253A%252Cy8kwakqYG0KreM%252C_%253BsjaOEq91gmIQMM%253A%252CkGS3Iv2MDGPXqM%252C_&usg=__IQKcykjjzyW8ki4f1BUN2qrxXv0%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUj4yci_bLAhUBkJQKHdRxC2AQsAQIJw&biw=1024&bih=672

    • User
      8 years ago

      Jess, I live in a rural area. The first notice we got by text from Telstra during one of the most recent bush fires here, was to tell us it was too late to leave, and to find shelter. Other bush fires, nothing official at all, only scuttlebutt.

    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago
      That's great advice and good to know what happens in a real threat. My uncles are in the BD CFA so will ask them for some info on bushfire rooms and google some examples.
      A U shape with metal louvres would work for us too thanks :)
    • User
      8 years ago

      I forgot to say the ABC was only playing the cricket.

    • User
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      Then there is the issue of cross breezes. Courtyards can miss out on these a bit. Solution is to situate windows and doors opposite each other, to catch prevailing breezes and funnel them through the house.

      example of cross breezes each side of a courtyard, not for the house plan.


    • PRO
      Manias Associates Building Designers
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      Hi Jess Jess

      Congratulation on your purchase on the foothills of the Otway Ranges is a great location and a flat site is a good site to build on. Doing all your doors at 870 is also a great idea - they will work with wheel chairs, hopefully you will never need them. Its a good size for a door as long as the occupants do not put on to much weight in the aging years requiring bigger wheelchairs. (I have some experience in designing for disability). Doors at 1050 are much better but it does require a bit of extra space and the doors will add to the cost a bit as they are non standard.

      As other have suggested a mud room and three bedrooms are really a good idea, you can always turn the non use bedrooms into a studio, theater, guest room etc later on when the boys leave.

      It is a great approach to get ideas, to design the house, however I think that when you consider your brief, designing the whole site might be a better approach. What I mean is that you have to consider lot of external issues like, water harvesting and position of tanks, onsite sewage management of grey and black water, composting bins and maybe worm farming, tools storage for garden and maybe a propagating area, solar cells and on site power storage, as you get nothing these days for pumping up to the grid, maybe an eatable garden design, reference to flora and fauna, also there may be other animals on the site (pets), and the fire issue.

      There seems to be a lot going on on the peripherals as much as the internals of the design.

      As for a being advised of the oncoming possible bush fire, I would strongly suggest that you build a fire shelter, and hopefully you will be advised in time and leave before the fire comes - and never have to use the fire shelter, and it will be the best money you have wasted in your house design.

      It would be good if you could get some separation from your "remote working office area" , from the main house. I have been working from home for about 20 years and I find that a little separation from the main house helps in maintaining - work away from home - concept.

      Although you might plan for your clients never to visiting you, situations can change and maintaining a separate relationship between live areas, and work areas, may be beneficial in the long run.

      As your views are to the west, good verandahs which connect to living and outdoor activities may be a solution, your second design seems to incorporate this idea, and it might need to be extended especially for the rest of activities that might occur on the site.
      There is certainly a lot to think about, you have a fantastic site, I hope you will take full advantage of the possibilities.

      Regards

      Michael Manias - Manias Associates Building Designers - mm407p@gmail.com

    • PRO
      Martina Hayes - Building Design & Interior Design
      8 years ago

      Hi Jess,

      I'd recommend moving the door to the master bed room further to the right allowing the wardrobe behind stretching over the entire length of the wall. This way you not only gain more storage space but also a nicer entry experience when you walk into the master bed room.

      Enjoy building your new home. It's such an exciting experience...

      Martina

    • Robyn ...
      8 years ago

      I prefer option 1, but only if you swap the bedrooms and change the windows.

      New master suite: Do you realise that you said you loved the Western view but aren't enjoying it from your bedroom? Why not put a window on the western wall? For a couple of months you can have shutters to manage the heat and the majority of the year you can love it. Envelop the bathroom as an ensuite, decrease the number of doors and rework the storage. Besides guests can use the main toilet.

      New children's bedroom: Do you realise that a temporary wall could be built and removed if there were twin windows rather than 1 large window? This offers flexibility and may increase your resale value (4 bed house) when you do come to sell.

      Do you have a few living scenarios where you can contextualise how you will use each space and move throughout the building?

      Example 1: Arriving for a long weekend. Park in garage. Carry overnight bags to bedrooms and carry shopping to kitchen. In either plan above a trolley can solve any shortcomings and keeps your entertainment area as far from the road as you can get.

      Example 2: Coming back inside after working/playing in garden dirt/mud. Entry via mud room for boots/jackets/gloves. Wash hands. Dispose of dirty clothes. Get changed. (plan 1: works; plan 2: I have this on my qtr acre and it is not enough).

      Example 3: Friends come for the weekend. The kids play together, watch TV and all love the bunk beds. You stay up till 2am chatting and having a great time. (plan 1: kids room/entertainment clash; plan 1 with swapped bedrooms: works best; plan 2: works)

      More mundane, but equally important to consider include laundry, taking out the rubbish, where the vegetable garden is in relation to the kitchen/mudroom and shed, and how to still enjoy the house when the teenagers are in residence.

      Btw: love the kitchen.

    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago

      Thankyou Robyn, some great food for thought. We've been coming up with our use cases to see which kinds of layouts work best for us. It really helps to think about it in this way.

    • Vy
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      we have three teens /adult kids..when their friends comes down they hop beds Ie.. two girls are sharing a room usually but if one of them have friends down then I'd house the one with friends in one room send the other one to the sofa bed..we've got two downstairs..

      then if there are lots of teens I give them a self inflating/ air mattress each ( Ray's Outdoor) and they line up all in a row in the retreat..

      one year there was too many so I bought a tent and sent the boys outside onto the deck..

      easier to have ensembles as beddings as then you can combine two singles to make a double or separate them etc..make sure they are on wheels..easier to roll

      holiday houses needs lots of toilets and bathrooms lol

      big kitchen where people can just hang around the island bench..

      big laundry to do all the washing once the guests have left

      User thanked Vy
    • Vy
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      just leave the retreat void of furniture except for TV unit and bean bags ..carpet it and that way the kids can all go in there on mattresses and sleeping bags..

      also big enough to house mattresses and still got room to walk through

      and at the other end of the house so you can't hear the kids..double doors preferably..

      the retreat is next to our bedroom so very noisy ..

      User thanked Vy
    • Vy
      8 years ago

      downstairs ..at beach house

      User thanked Vy
    • User
      Original Author
      8 years ago

      Thanks Vy, good to get some insight from someone who is down the teenager path. Sounds like a flexible space (and mindset!) is the key. I remember as a kid myself we'd all just pile in one room on blow up mattresses with sleeping bags. We did carry on like turkeys though so I take your point about having the kids rumpus/retreat away from parents bedroom :)

    • Vy
      8 years ago
      last modified: 8 years ago

      hehehe we bought the place so we had no choice the one thing I looked for was 2 living spaces and it's got that on two levels..adult one floor kids the other just at night when they are rowdy we can't sleep other than that it suits us fine..only got 3 bedrooms but having the downstairs and the retreat helped..

      one New Year we had 27 at the house in total..

      we had 4 on the two sofa beds..2 in one bedroom..3 in the other ..ours housed 5 of us..our family ..the lounge suite had 2 and the retreat had about 8 and 3 in the tent lol

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