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Renovating
ericsanford69

Very rough new concrete- will it last?

ericsanford69
7 years ago

Quick preface, I won't get into the details of the why or how here- we've already come to an agreement with the ready mix company, that part is over, no advice needed.

So, our new driveway pour went very wrong, and some of the slab was screeded (barely) once, mostly cured, then sprayed with water and brushed (a lot) to try to fill in the gaps and air pockets on the surface. We're keeping the slab- it's out of sight and the added traction is actually nice on the steep hill- but my only lingering concern is the durability. I'm in MN, and initially worried water would get in to any remaining holes/gaps in the slab and freeze and crack or chip our new slab into oblivion. The ready mix company sent a cement contractor out and he said best to leave it alone, it will be fine. I called another cement guy out of the yellow pages and he said it would be plenty durable. It seems it's only the cosmetic aspect anyone cares about, but if I leave it be, will the slab last as long (or almost) as any other, all things being the same?

Featured Answer
  • klem1
    7 years ago

    Is there such thing as "a frost-free place" in MN?

    Comments (23)

    • klem1
      7 years ago

      "will the slab last as long (or almost) as any other, all things being the same?"

      NO! That will be busted up in a few (as few as 2)years. I think you are making a huge blunder turning a deaf ear to remedial advice.

    • PRO
      Sombreuil
      7 years ago

      If it is in a frost-free place, the surface may never break down, but it is not a finished slab by any known measure. Aesthetically it is an eyesore and harms property value.

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    • greg_2015
      7 years ago

      I'm confused. If you've already decided that you're keeping the slab and don't want any advise about that, then what is the point of this post?

      Does it matter how long it'll last if you are definitely keeping it?

      Or are you asking if there is a way to fix the slab without ripping it out so that it'll last longer?

    • User
      7 years ago

      I would find this to be unacceptable.

    • PRO
      Attics to Basements Building & Renovations, Inc.
      7 years ago

      WOW, being a contractor in the Twin Cities, I can say for sure that water, salt, and freezing will destroy that in a couple years. This is not to mention I don't think they knew what they are doing at all. Even someone without knowledge should be able to give you a better finished product then that. It may never break completely apart but who knows as I don't think anyone ever leaves something like that in long enough to find out.

    • geoffrey_b
      7 years ago

      It's not acceptable. I've never seen such a poor job.

    • ericsanford69
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      "Or are you asking if there is a way to fix the slab without ripping it out so that it'll last longer?"

      @greg_2015, yes, that's what I'm asking. I'm also asking, realistically, what will happen, surface-wise and overall slab integrity-wise, if I leave it alone.

      It's a summer only location, so it will never see shoveling or salt, if that matters.

    • weedyacres
      7 years ago

      If your settlement with the Ready-Mix contractor was that you got the slab for free, then it would probably be ok to keep it, because you'd get a few years of free use out of it. :-)

    • klem1
      7 years ago

      Now I'm confused to. Who was it that said " no advice needed."?

    • ericsanford69
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      @klem1, I see what you mean. I should have said, "...no advice needed on dealing with the ready mix company, or how bad their service was, because that part's over now."

    • User
      7 years ago

      Personally, I'd opt for a full tearout and replacement. However, it's sounding like that's not an option. It looks like someone watched a couple YouTube videos of experts doing it and then off they went. That being said, I'd think it would fail rather quickly, and it will be expensive to fix. The only thing I can think of at this point is some sort of professionally applied epoxy coating that will fill those voids and pits, otherwise, water will get in and during freeze/thaws, quickly reak havoc on it.

    • klem1
      7 years ago

      Ok,here's a solution and it must be done asap before voids fill with organic matter. Useing bagged sand mix concrete,add 30% by weight portland. Mixing from scratch use 40/60 portland/mason's sand. Thorougly wet surface,keep surface wet 20 minutes or longer,blow water from voids and immediatly pour new slurry. Use only enough water that alow's mix to flow freely into voids while lightly bull floating,skip mag trowel and go straight to steel when slurry has stiffened enough to take the steel. Follow with broom if desired. Working under overcast sky and 65 to 75F,3 light mistings 3 hours apart should be adiquate. Sunny and/or hot will require carful monitoring,regular misting and posibly covering to cure. Don't overlook capping edges and sides.

    • User
      7 years ago

      Was it air-entrained or reinforced? Was it a low water mix? Does it have any control joints?

    • ericsanford69
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      It was 6% air-entrained, reinforced with steel mesh. Admixture Eucon Pro-Finish (I believe) 2 oz/cwt. I'll be cutting in joints before winter.

    • jellytoast
      7 years ago

      Am I the only one curious as to why this was allowed to remain like this? Even if it was free, it is quite an eyesore. And it seems like someone, eventually, is going to have to spend money to tear it out.

    • PRO
      Mint tile Minneapolis
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      It's a summer only location, so it will never see shoveling or salt, if that matters.

      A summer only location in MINNESOTA !

      Youre story is intriguing, and then you want selective answers too.....I like youre moxie

    • millworkman
      7 years ago

      "Is there such thing as "a frost-free place" in MN?"


      Of course it is "It's a summer only location,", klem.


    • klem1
      7 years ago

      Good catch mill man,I should slow down and pay closer attention.

    • ericsanford69
      Original Author
      7 years ago
      last modified: 7 years ago

      Thank you all those of you with suggestions. Lots of good information on here, lots of smart people with experience. I'll take all your advice to heart as I try to figure out what to do with this.

      I kept the details intentionally vague so that the discussion would stay on the questions I needed answers to- namely, whether the slab would last as-is, and what could be done about it without tearing it out. We all know how these posts go, there's lots of opinions about the situation and everyone wants to give them, whether or not they are constructive for the situation.

      So, here's what happened. Marshall Concrete here in Minneapolis quoted me $2200 for 11yds of their "driveway mix", in a 50' conveyor truck, so me and 8 other amateurs could lay down the driveway you see and another patio behind the house. They were concerned with the 30° slope, so they sent a 3.5" slump. The (relatively inexperienced) driver unfolded the conveyor and promptly plugged the chute, which he struggled to dig out for a half hour. Then, when he'd get the conveyor loaded up, it would bog down and stop. We shoveled it off by hand a few times while he blamed the stiff mix. It was another hour before he'd finally admit his conveyor was broken (it looked like it was going to work, but then slowly lost more and more power until it could barely move). I pushed him to get the material the h*** out of the truck so we could finish it, while he struggled getting the conveyor to work. We poured from the top down, and finished under/around the conveyor as best we could the whole time, but by the time he emptied the truck it was almost two hours in, and it was all nearly cured. The top looks great, and the bottom and patio (which we poured out of the second truck) look great, but this middle section we couldn't get to under the conveyor while he fiddled around.

      The owner of Marshall came out and looked, and said he'd have someone grind it and coat it with Ardex at his expense, plus a discount on the whole thing. He got his "concrete pro" to look at it, and he said to leave it alone, it would be fine (changing the owner's mind). I called a concrete pro in the yellow pages, he also said structurally it would be fine, but that the finish was unacceptable. Marshall and I agreed on $1000 off the total bill and called it a day.

      Had the conclusion of "it will be fine but look terrible" not been disputed here, I'm okay with the overall situation. By "summer only" I mean that this driveway goes down to a storage shed that we only use in the summer, so no one will use it during snow. I only paved it at all to prevent erosion. You can't actually see the driveway from anywhere on the property unless you're standing on it, so the looks I don't care about. Heck, it's got great traction for pulling a boat up that steep hill!

      Did I make mistakes? I suppose, yes. 30 min into this struggle I should have told the driver to take his terrible truck away and send a new one if he couldn't even get the material out of it. But, it was a fairly low stakes pour with plenty of help, and I trusted the ready mix company to be able to get their material out of their truck, at the very least. I guess with more experience I should have been able to recognize that they weren't even able to do that and sent the truck away before it turned into the nightmare it did. We worked on that pour for 4.5 hours with 9 people. Should I have insisted on more out of them after the fact than just this half-off discount? Maybe. But I realized I couldn't get them to do any of the labor for me, and the thought of breaking out that section and repouring, with significant expense and a whole bunch more labor from me, was daunting. I could have (and maybe still could) take them to small claims court, but at what point do you just leave it be and have over with it?

      Alright, fire away! :)

    • klem1
      7 years ago

      What's done is done,no sense battling over it. I will only say that freeze-thaw cycles have been busting granite since creation,crater pocked concrete doesn't stand a chance . Were you in Tucson or Yuma I'd say it could last quite a while.

    • Vith
      7 years ago

      Can we talk about theories how all the pitting happened? I am thinking they did not work the air out of the concrete after the pour. Looks like they just dumped it and ran a board across it.

    • ericsanford69
      Original Author
      7 years ago

      Yes @Vith, if you read through my (long) story above, that section we ran a board across, but it was already pretty stiff because the driver had been struggling to get the mix out of the truck for so long. Then it was under the conveyor where we couldn't reach it to finish it for even longer. By the time the conveyor was out of the way, it was so stiff that all we could do was spray it and brush the crap out of it to try to fill in the voids. Because of that, the voids are actually *mostly* filled, at least on the surface, except in a couple small spots. Here's some closer pics:


      Most of the bad section looks like the left. On the right is the very worst- there's a couple sqft of this. It's also on a very steep 30% grade, so water runs off quickly.

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