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Comments

suzanne_in_virginia 8a
suzanne_in_virginia 8a
Comment
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

"Obesity" - Lol - good one. ;o) Is there a visual feedback that I can use to tell whether I have fertilized too much or too little? Your question needs to be answered in two parts. First, there will be a very visual attention getter if you fertilize so that the level of TDS (total dissolved solids) is so high that it prevents water uptake. This is called plasmolysis, and we commonly refer to it as fertilizer burn. Necrotic leaf tips/margins or dry, dead spots in the leaves are the first signs, with total plant collapse occurring in more extreme cases. Think of fertilizer like salt, and if you add too much salt, instead of plant cells pulling nutrient-laden water into the cell, the highly ionized water that occurs in soils after heavy fertilizer can actually reverse the process and PULL water OUT of cells, and we know that's not good. (Think of how salt pulls water from ham or bacon - same thing.) The reason I said it needs to be answered in two parts is because we can still over-fertilize while still maintaining the level of TDS within bounds. Lets use the example of the high P formulations known as 'bloom boosters' or some similar name. If you use the popular 10-52-10 fertilizer that is touted as a bloom booster, and you are providing N at the levels the plant needs to grow normally, you're adding about 32 times the amount of P the plant could EVER hope to use. These high levels of P do two things. They raise the level of TDS unnecessarily, because the plant will never use all the P, and the ultra high levels of P inhibits iron and manganese uptake by roots, and deficiencies of these two metal micronutrients causes interveinal yellowing. You see the interveinal yellowing and say, "Wow! My plants must need more fertilizer." So you sock them with more bloom booster, which of course, exacerbates the problem. Two other common 'over-fertilizing' problems are adding iron supplements that don't have Mn included, and using Epsom salts when there is a low soil Ca content. Iron and Mn have an antagonistic relationship & should be present in soils at approx a 2:1 Fe:Mn ratio. Ca and Mg also share an antagonistic relationship, and should be in soils at approximately 3-4:1 Ca:Mg. Simply adding Mg via Epsom salts can cause an antagonistic Ca deficiency and cause weak, distorted growth, even if there is ample amounts of Ca in the soil. . . . fertilized too little? You'll need to look for deficiency symptoms. The list is too long for me to go into, but you can become a very good detective if you know your business. ;o) I should also tell you that you can fertilize at exactly the correct rate & ratio of nutrients, and STILL have culturally induced deficiencies. Examples besides the antagonisms I already mentioned are things like a chill induced P deficiency. Plants have difficulty taking up P when soils are cold. Another very common cultural problem is caused by saturated soils that drain poorly, low oxygen levels cause Fe and Mn to become electron acceptors. This leads to their precipitation (iron and manganese) and, even though these elements might be adequately present in soils, the plants inability to assimilate them can become obvious in deficiency symptoms. Soggy soils also make Ca difficult or impossible for uptake, as does very humid conditions or prolonged periods of cloudy weather. Finally, fertilizing at extremely high levels of any one element, even if the o/a level of fertilizer (I'm actually talking about the level of TDS) in the soil is favorable, you can expect deficiency symptoms of the element that was supplied at above luxury levels when the level of the element drops to normal. Example: Over-fertilize with N, and when the N levels return to a more favorable level, the plant can exhibit N deficiency symptoms, even though the N level in soils SHOULD be perfectly acceptable. Or alternately, can I determine the maximum amount that will NOT cause root burn and just apply the maximum amount? Yes and no. If you are growing in a fast container soil that drains freely, and you are watering properly, it will be very difficult to over-fertilize, unless you exceed the recommended solution strength. With these fast soils and proper watering, the soil is flushed every time you water, so salts do not appreciably accumulate. With a slow container soil, you need to be very careful. If you are watering in sips, virtually ALL the unused salts from fertilizer and those that naturally occur in irrigation water will quickly accumulate in soils. When someone complains of wilted plants while the soil is damp, look first to a salt accumulation in soils (possibly a temperature issue, too). The maximum you can apply will always depend on the TDS in the soil before you fertilize + what you're adding, so you can actually cause severe fertilizer burn with a 1/4-1/2 strength solution if the soil is already high in soluble salts. I assumed you were asking this last question about containers, because of the extremely high # of variables that would affect the answer if you were asking the question about in situ soils. That cover it? Al

Q

Reply to: "Obesity" - Lol - good one. ;o) Is there a visual feedback that I can use to tell whether I have fertilized too much or too little? Your question needs to be answered in two parts. First, there will be a very visual attention getter if you fertilize so that the level of TDS (total dissolved solids) is so high that it prevents water uptake. This is called plasmolysis, and we commonly refer to it as fertilizer burn. Necrotic leaf tips/margins or dry, dead spots in the leaves are the first signs, with total plant collapse occurring in more extreme cases. Think of fertilizer like salt, and if you add too much salt, instead of plant cells pulling nutrient-laden water into the cell, the highly ionized water that occurs in soils after heavy fertilizer can actually reverse the process and PULL water OUT of cells, and we know that's not good. (Think of how salt pulls water from ham or bacon - same thing.) The reason I said it needs to be answered in two parts is because we can still over-fertilize while still maintaining the level of TDS within bounds. Lets use the example of the high P formulations known as 'bloom boosters' or some similar name. If you use the popular 10-52-10 fertilizer that is touted as a bloom booster, and you are providing N at the levels the plant needs to grow normally, you're adding about 32 times the amount of P the plant could EVER hope to use. These high levels of P do two things. They raise the level of TDS unnecessarily, because the plant will never use all the P, and the ultra high levels of P inhibits iron and manganese uptake by roots, and deficiencies of these two metal micronutrients causes interveinal yellowing. You see the interveinal yellowing and say, "Wow! My plants must need more fertilizer." So you sock them with more bloom booster, which of course, exacerbates the problem. Two other common 'over-fertilizing' problems are adding iron supplements that don't have Mn included, and using Epsom salts when there is a low soil Ca content. Iron and Mn have an antagonistic relationship & should be present in soils at approx a 2:1 Fe:Mn ratio. Ca and Mg also share an antagonistic relationship, and should be in soils at approximately 3-4:1 Ca:Mg. Simply adding Mg via Epsom salts can cause an antagonistic Ca deficiency and cause weak, distorted growth, even if there is ample amounts of Ca in the soil. . . . fertilized too little? You'll need to look for deficiency symptoms. The list is too long for me to go into, but you can become a very good detective if you know your business. ;o) I should also tell you that you can fertilize at exactly the correct rate & ratio of nutrients, and STILL have culturally induced deficiencies. Examples besides the antagonisms I already mentioned are things like a chill induced P deficiency. Plants have difficulty taking up P when soils are cold. Another very common cultural problem is caused by saturated soils that drain poorly, low oxygen levels cause Fe and Mn to become electron acceptors. This leads to their precipitation (iron and manganese) and, even though these elements might be adequately present in soils, the plants inability to assimilate them can become obvious in deficiency symptoms. Soggy soils also make Ca difficult or impossible for uptake, as does very humid conditions or prolonged periods of cloudy weather. Finally, fertilizing at extremely high levels of any one element, even if the o/a level of fertilizer (I'm actually talking about the level of TDS) in the soil is favorable, you can expect deficiency symptoms of the element that was supplied at above luxury levels when the level of the element drops to normal. Example: Over-fertilize with N, and when the N levels return to a more favorable level, the plant can exhibit N deficiency symptoms, even though the N level in soils SHOULD be perfectly acceptable. Or alternately, can I determine the maximum amount that will NOT cause root burn and just apply the maximum amount? Yes and no. If you are growing in a fast container soil that drains freely, and you are watering properly, it will be very difficult to over-fertilize, unless you exceed the recommended solution strength. With these fast soils and proper watering, the soil is flushed every time you water, so salts do not appreciably accumulate. With a slow container soil, you need to be very careful. If you are watering in sips, virtually ALL the unused salts from fertilizer and those that naturally occur in irrigation water will quickly accumulate in soils. When someone complains of wilted plants while the soil is damp, look first to a salt accumulation in soils (possibly a temperature issue, too). The maximum you can apply will always depend on the TDS in the soil before you fertilize + what you're adding, so you can actually cause severe fertilizer burn with a 1/4-1/2 strength solution if the soil is already high in soluble salts. I assumed you were asking this last question about containers, because of the extremely high # of variables that would affect the answer if you were asking the question about in situ soils. That cover it? Al

Q

Comment
tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

JC - this may be more complicated than what you want because of the jumble of numbers to follow, but when you see a colon (:) between numbers, remember I'm talking about a ratio (20-20-20 is a 1:1:1 ratio fertilizer), and when you see a dash (-) between numbers, I'm talking about the % of NPK in the blend. Large greenhouse operations use a method of fertilizing that includes injecting fertilizer into the irrigation water. It's called fertigation. They do tissue analysis on the plants to find what nutrients are present at either deficient or toxic levels, and adjust what they inject to correct the deficiency of all the 13 nutrients plants don't get from air/water. If all nutrients are available in the soil at 'adequacy' levels, the plant will use approximately 1.5 parts of P and 7 parts of K for every 10 parts of N they use. Usage of N:P:K = 10:1.5:7. I'm going to do some division and reduce this ratio to 1/3 of what it is now, for later reference. If I divide 10:1.5:7 by 3.33, it comes out to be 3:.5:2color>. Greenhouse growers have learned that they can control plant growth by adjusting the amount of N available, as long as all the other nutrients are available at at least adequacy levels, and they make it their business to be sure they are. You mentioned that they started their plants on a 20-10-20 blend, which is a 2:1:2 ratio. Lets go back to the division I did a little up the post. We see that plants want to use nutrients at the rate of 3:.5:2, but the greenhouse is fertilizing them with a low N diet, only 2/3 of the N they want, and twice the P. (2:1:2 vs 3:.5:2 yields 2/3 the N and twice the P). The reason for this is pretty simple. The reduced N slows vegetative growth substantially, but it doesn't affect photosynthesis or the amount of photosynthate produced. The plant can't grow leaves & stems, so what does it do with all the extra food it is producing? It makes flowers/fruit with it. So here's the deal: A 1:1:1 blend like 20-20-20 or 14-14-14 supplies 6 times more P and almost twice as much K as the plant can use, so is probably not the best o/a choice for containerized plants. The surplus nutrients just unnecessarily raise the level of dissolved solids in, and the electrical conductivity of the soil, which makes it increasingly difficult for the plants to absorb water and the nutrients dissolved in the water. A 2:1:2 ratio fertilizer like the 20-10-20 is still a high P fertilizer in relationship to the amount of N applied (greenhouse fertilizer programs usually furnish all the other nutrients as a % of N) and will keep plants compact while still allowing them to bloom well. If you want the plants to grow lusher foliage, & grow closer to their natural growth pattern, a 3:1:2 blend like MG 24-8-16 granular soluble or 12-4-8 liquid is preferred. I would also advise you that before you attempt to manipulate growth, you'll need to be sure your plants are getting enough of the secondary macronutrients (Ca & Mg are very important - S is usually never a problem in container culture) and a full complement of the other minor elements (Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, are the others to look for). For best results, you should incorporate an insoluble source of the minors like Micromax into the soil before planting, or add a soluble supplement like STEM to your irrigation water every time you fertilize. I hope this wasn't too confusing or complicated, but it's very difficult to get the message across w/o using the numbers. I hope you take time to digest what I said, as it will give a better understanding of nutrient supplementation for container culture in general, as well as for your specific application. Al

Q

Reply to: JC - this may be more complicated than what you want because of the jumble of numbers to follow, but when you see a colon (:) between numbers, remember I'm talking about a ratio (20-20-20 is a 1:1:1 ratio fertilizer), and when you see a dash (-) between numbers, I'm talking about the % of NPK in the blend. Large greenhouse operations use a method of fertilizing that includes injecting fertilizer into the irrigation water. It's called fertigation. They do tissue analysis on the plants to find what nutrients are present at either deficient or toxic levels, and adjust what they inject to correct the deficiency of all the 13 nutrients plants don't get from air/water. If all nutrients are available in the soil at 'adequacy' levels, the plant will use approximately 1.5 parts of P and 7 parts of K for every 10 parts of N they use. Usage of N:P:K = 10:1.5:7. I'm going to do some division and reduce this ratio to 1/3 of what it is now, for later reference. If I divide 10:1.5:7 by 3.33, it comes out to be 3:.5:2color>. Greenhouse growers have learned that they can control plant growth by adjusting the amount of N available, as long as all the other nutrients are available at at least adequacy levels, and they make it their business to be sure they are. You mentioned that they started their plants on a 20-10-20 blend, which is a 2:1:2 ratio. Lets go back to the division I did a little up the post. We see that plants want to use nutrients at the rate of 3:.5:2, but the greenhouse is fertilizing them with a low N diet, only 2/3 of the N they want, and twice the P. (2:1:2 vs 3:.5:2 yields 2/3 the N and twice the P). The reason for this is pretty simple. The reduced N slows vegetative growth substantially, but it doesn't affect photosynthesis or the amount of photosynthate produced. The plant can't grow leaves & stems, so what does it do with all the extra food it is producing? It makes flowers/fruit with it. So here's the deal: A 1:1:1 blend like 20-20-20 or 14-14-14 supplies 6 times more P and almost twice as much K as the plant can use, so is probably not the best o/a choice for containerized plants. The surplus nutrients just unnecessarily raise the level of dissolved solids in, and the electrical conductivity of the soil, which makes it increasingly difficult for the plants to absorb water and the nutrients dissolved in the water. A 2:1:2 ratio fertilizer like the 20-10-20 is still a high P fertilizer in relationship to the amount of N applied (greenhouse fertilizer programs usually furnish all the other nutrients as a % of N) and will keep plants compact while still allowing them to bloom well. If you want the plants to grow lusher foliage, & grow closer to their natural growth pattern, a 3:1:2 blend like MG 24-8-16 granular soluble or 12-4-8 liquid is preferred. I would also advise you that before you attempt to manipulate growth, you'll need to be sure your plants are getting enough of the secondary macronutrients (Ca & Mg are very important - S is usually never a problem in container culture) and a full complement of the other minor elements (Fe, Mn, Zn, Cu, are the others to look for). For best results, you should incorporate an insoluble source of the minors like Micromax into the soil before planting, or add a soluble supplement like STEM to your irrigation water every time you fertilize. I hope this wasn't too confusing or complicated, but it's very difficult to get the message across w/o using the numbers. I hope you take time to digest what I said, as it will give a better understanding of nutrient supplementation for container culture in general, as well as for your specific application. Al

Q

Comment
strawchicago z5

I did further research on blackspot prevention and found spraying with a wet solution is tricky for these reasons: 1) Leaves have to be sprayed BEFORE the spores land and germinate. 2) Blackspots occur when leaves are wet for more than 7 hours. 3) Rain washes the spray, so you have to respray after the rain. No wonder I lost my battle with chemical sprays with our constant rain in the spring/fall. Prevention works better than ineffective quick-fixes. Oklahoma University Extension advised DUSTING the mulch in the spring with sulphur, making the ground acidic so the spores can't breed. (Fermented horsemanure mulch works the same by making the ground acidic). Another University Extension Abstract mentioned about iron deficiency worsening blackspots in plants. Iron deficiency is a problem with potted plants, since it leaks out. The worst blackspots I have seen are the potted plants at the store. My William Shakespeare 2000 is still in a pot (I can't decide on full-sun or partial shade for him). He has the classic iron deficiency that Michaelg alerted: young leaves turn yellow between the vein. Besides potted plants, iron deficiency is a problem with alkaline clay soil. Iron chelates can burn, so I'll stick with the safe method recommended on gardenweb years ago: soak a steel wool in a bucket until it rusts, then put it next to the plant. A deficiency in potassium also causes reduced disease resistance. Symptoms are: older leaves become mottled or spotted, edges dry and scorched. Weak stems. Poor root system. Mulching with banana peels will fix this. Another problem with clay soil high in limestone and calcium like mine is: Deficiency in magnesium - lower leaves turn yellow, then brown. Leaves are thin, brittle, and cup upward. Epsom salt will fix this. The above info. can be found at primaseeds.org/nutrients/

Q

Reply to: I did further research on blackspot prevention and found spraying with a wet solution is tricky for these reasons: 1) Leaves have to be sprayed BEFORE the spores land and germinate. 2) Blackspots occur when leaves are wet for more than 7 hours. 3) Rain washes the spray, so you have to respray after the rain. No wonder I lost my battle with chemical sprays with our constant rain in the spring/fall. Prevention works better than ineffective quick-fixes. Oklahoma University Extension advised DUSTING the mulch in the spring with sulphur, making the ground acidic so the spores can't breed. (Fermented horsemanure mulch works the same by making the ground acidic). Another University Extension Abstract mentioned about iron deficiency worsening blackspots in plants. Iron deficiency is a problem with potted plants, since it leaks out. The worst blackspots I have seen are the potted plants at the store. My William Shakespeare 2000 is still in a pot (I can't decide on full-sun or partial shade for him). He has the classic iron deficiency that Michaelg alerted: young leaves turn yellow between the vein. Besides potted plants, iron deficiency is a problem with alkaline clay soil. Iron chelates can burn, so I'll stick with the safe method recommended on gardenweb years ago: soak a steel wool in a bucket until it rusts, then put it next to the plant. A deficiency in potassium also causes reduced disease resistance. Symptoms are: older leaves become mottled or spotted, edges dry and scorched. Weak stems. Poor root system. Mulching with banana peels will fix this. Another problem with clay soil high in limestone and calcium like mine is: Deficiency in magnesium - lower leaves turn yellow, then brown. Leaves are thin, brittle, and cup upward. Epsom salt will fix this. The above info. can be found at primaseeds.org/nutrients/

Q

Comment
michaelg

1) Thanks to Henry for posting the comment by Horst on the superiority of GreenCure to other bicarbonate fungicide mixtures. This is a safe product that is very effective against powdery mildew and that might control blackspot under some circumstances. 2) Henry asked for a link showing the superiority of Bayer Disease Control (tebuconazole) to other synthetic fungicides. That would be the Emma Gachomo dissertation. Please see the series of photos showing how leaflets age after inoculation with blackspot and treatment with various chemicals. Unlike other fungicides, tebuconazole kills the fungal body growing inside the leaf. She did not test propiconazole (Banner), which might be about as effective. A reduced-risk strobilurin fungicide was also highly effective, but this product is available only in large quantities for huge $$$. 3. Tebuconazole (ingredient in Bayer) was found ineffective against blackspot in the Hagan (1991) study. This is an anomalous result. They mention a previous study that found the chemical highly effective. There must have been something wrong with the material they used, which was Lynx brand tebuconazole, or their mixtures. In my own multi-year experience, Bayer Disease Control sprayed every 14 days provides almost complete control of blackspot. It has been much more effective than triforine (Rose Pride), myclobutanil, and various non-synthetic sprays that I have applied at 7-day intervals in the past. Here is a link that might be useful: Gachomo study

Q

Reply to: 1) Thanks to Henry for posting the comment by Horst on the superiority of GreenCure to other bicarbonate fungicide mixtures. This is a safe product that is very effective against powdery mildew and that might control blackspot under some circumstances. 2) Henry asked for a link showing the superiority of Bayer Disease Control (tebuconazole) to other synthetic fungicides. That would be the Emma Gachomo dissertation. Please see the series of photos showing how leaflets age after inoculation with blackspot and treatment with various chemicals. Unlike other fungicides, tebuconazole kills the fungal body growing inside the leaf. She did not test propiconazole (Banner), which might be about as effective. A reduced-risk strobilurin fungicide was also highly effective, but this product is available only in large quantities for huge $$$. 3. Tebuconazole (ingredient in Bayer) was found ineffective against blackspot in the Hagan (1991) study. This is an anomalous result. They mention a previous study that found the chemical highly effective. There must have been something wrong with the material they used, which was Lynx brand tebuconazole, or their mixtures. In my own multi-year experience, Bayer Disease Control sprayed every 14 days provides almost complete control of blackspot. It has been much more effective than triforine (Rose Pride), myclobutanil, and various non-synthetic sprays that I have applied at 7-day intervals in the past. Here is a link that might be useful: Gachomo study

Q

Comment
Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca

Oh what gorgeous photos everyone !!! Deborah your garden is so lovely . I can just insert myself there and take it all in !! Sumera your distant drums is gorgeous!! Mine is absolutely covered in rust and I do need to do something for the thing. The poets wife is an amazing DA , you chose well ! Buds on “April love “ I can’t wait to see open . It’s a thorny roses which is a bummer bc I wanted to put it up front by the walkway but I’m worried someone will get hurt . To my minds eye, Belinda dream is the perfecto shade of pink ! And the fragrance!! I love this rose. I’d love a hedge of it someday. Another silver lining rose. I’m obsessed Versigny. This bloom is on the scraggly cane hidden at the bottom of the plant! Lol I was surprised to find it . First flower of “ reconciliation “. Not quite the pics advertised but I enjoy it anyway . I’m sure it’ll grow into itself . The charlatan. Came from freedom gardens in the fall and just keeps pumping out these blooms despite being 6 inches tall . Lol Today I’m driving with Lisa to a lovely garden center past my home she’s never been to . I hope I find some goodies!! Have a lovely day !!!

Q

Reply to: Oh what gorgeous photos everyone !!! Deborah your garden is so lovely . I can just insert myself there and take it all in !! Sumera your distant drums is gorgeous!! Mine is absolutely covered in rust and I do need to do something for the thing. The poets wife is an amazing DA , you chose well ! Buds on “April love “ I can’t wait to see open . It’s a thorny roses which is a bummer bc I wanted to put it up front by the walkway but I’m worried someone will get hurt . To my minds eye, Belinda dream is the perfecto shade of pink ! And the fragrance!! I love this rose. I’d love a hedge of it someday. Another silver lining rose. I’m obsessed Versigny. This bloom is on the scraggly cane hidden at the bottom of the plant! Lol I was surprised to find it . First flower of “ reconciliation “. Not quite the pics advertised but I enjoy it anyway . I’m sure it’ll grow into itself . The charlatan. Came from freedom gardens in the fall and just keeps pumping out these blooms despite being 6 inches tall . Lol Today I’m driving with Lisa to a lovely garden center past my home she’s never been to . I hope I find some goodies!! Have a lovely day !!!

Q

Belinda’s Dream

Q

Comment
Kimberly zone 10 so cal

forgive me for posting so many, i just couldn't contain my excitement to share my beauties! my family doesn't really care much for my garden, so no one but me appreciates it. i hope by sharing them here you all can enjoy them!

Q

Reply to: forgive me for posting so many, i just couldn't contain my excitement to share my beauties! my family doesn't really care much for my garden, so no one but me appreciates it. i hope by sharing them here you all can enjoy them!

Q

Comment
BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)

Another New Rose! AA186-7 is just beginning to bloom. The buds have been huge, the stems very thick, everything is oversized on this one. The color is a much deeper yellow than I imagined. I think I’ll really like this one. Savannah, in full bloom A first bloom from Jude the Obscure A few blooms of Dark Knight. In the first bloom you can see some of the petals have a true black shading. In the second, there are some rich violet tones. Add the accents of ember red and creamy yellow to the deep crimson base, and you have a truly unique rose. Unfortunately it does age to a murky brown, but the plant is vigorous and generous and overall a very worthwhile novelty. Acapella looking perfect in bud and bloom . Wonderful banana fragrance, nice long stems , quality blooms. Chris Evert, the brightest rose in the garden. She clashed with all her neighbors, so she’s been happily moved to a pot by herself. Someone described her so well as ‘Gold Medal with all the lights turned on’. It’s funny that Chris Evert the sportswoman was such a laid back and steady player, yet her rose is so flamboyantly bright. Florentine Silk, an Iris that I find goes particularly well with roses. Red Intuition, another unique novelty with good garden performance Love Song singing a duet The plant is incredibly lush, soft and generous. Eden in peak bloom today. She completely obscured the 8ft trellis that was intended to support her, like King Kong on a sky scraper. This spring I stuck 12 ft rebar in a larger circumference around her, and painstakingly tied all her fat uncooperative canes around it. It’s as more trouble to prune Eden that the rest of the rose bed, and this is her one big cycle, but she sure makes the most of it

Q

Reply to: Another New Rose! AA186-7 is just beginning to bloom. The buds have been huge, the stems very thick, everything is oversized on this one. The color is a much deeper yellow than I imagined. I think I’ll really like this one. Savannah, in full bloom A first bloom from Jude the Obscure A few blooms of Dark Knight. In the first bloom you can see some of the petals have a true black shading. In the second, there are some rich violet tones. Add the accents of ember red and creamy yellow to the deep crimson base, and you have a truly unique rose. Unfortunately it does age to a murky brown, but the plant is vigorous and generous and overall a very worthwhile novelty. Acapella looking perfect in bud and bloom . Wonderful banana fragrance, nice long stems , quality blooms. Chris Evert, the brightest rose in the garden. She clashed with all her neighbors, so she’s been happily moved to a pot by herself. Someone described her so well as ‘Gold Medal with all the lights turned on’. It’s funny that Chris Evert the sportswoman was such a laid back and steady player, yet her rose is so flamboyantly bright. Florentine Silk, an Iris that I find goes particularly well with roses. Red Intuition, another unique novelty with good garden performance Love Song singing a duet The plant is incredibly lush, soft and generous. Eden in peak bloom today. She completely obscured the 8ft trellis that was intended to support her, like King Kong on a sky scraper. This spring I stuck 12 ft rebar in a larger circumference around her, and painstakingly tied all her fat uncooperative canes around it. It’s as more trouble to prune Eden that the rest of the rose bed, and this is her one big cycle, but she sure makes the most of it

Q

Comment
kathyc_z10_socal

I love these color threads! Thanks for starting them! @ jc_7a_MiddleTN I have Tess although she has only been in my garden a short time. Here is a picture from May (she had been planted in Sept 2018). here is a single bloom! She didnt bloom a ton after the initial spring flush but I am hoping this will improve with age Other reds! I don't have many but I do have many pics of them! Valentine. A workhorse, literally, This picture is from spring but it is still blooming now with 3 hours of sun. (Gruss an Coburg photobombing!) Oklahoma. Lost my original plant to our terrible slab leak fiasco/house repiping project of 2019. She drowned! I replaced her just to have that amazing smell. Here is a pic of one of the new blooms on the new plant. One day my son ran in to tell me the new OK was blooming and the blooms were as big as his head! So here we are measuring and comparing Alfred Colomb, a new band from May, first bloom! Fields of the Wood/Rhode Island Red, first blooms varied dark pinky/red Red Intuition, a great rose for my zone! Constantly blooming and gets very tall. A small bouquet I put together a week before Christmas, with an almost white Peace I have Mothersday (poly) and Ascot in now as bareroots and cant wait to post pics of those!

Q

Reply to: I love these color threads! Thanks for starting them! @ jc_7a_MiddleTN I have Tess although she has only been in my garden a short time. Here is a picture from May (she had been planted in Sept 2018). here is a single bloom! She didnt bloom a ton after the initial spring flush but I am hoping this will improve with age Other reds! I don't have many but I do have many pics of them! Valentine. A workhorse, literally, This picture is from spring but it is still blooming now with 3 hours of sun. (Gruss an Coburg photobombing!) Oklahoma. Lost my original plant to our terrible slab leak fiasco/house repiping project of 2019. She drowned! I replaced her just to have that amazing smell. Here is a pic of one of the new blooms on the new plant. One day my son ran in to tell me the new OK was blooming and the blooms were as big as his head! So here we are measuring and comparing Alfred Colomb, a new band from May, first bloom! Fields of the Wood/Rhode Island Red, first blooms varied dark pinky/red Red Intuition, a great rose for my zone! Constantly blooming and gets very tall. A small bouquet I put together a week before Christmas, with an almost white Peace I have Mothersday (poly) and Ascot in now as bareroots and cant wait to post pics of those!

Q

Discussion
sandyslopes z5 n. UT
40

Why don't my heucheras thrive?

Q

Comment
michaelg

They are similar. MM Mix has more phosphate, which is probably not helpful. I think the reason MMM is described as a soil conditioner rather than a fertilizer is that they don't want to be responsible for meeting the federal standards for maintaining the labeled NPK analysis, which is tricky with bulky organic materials. Also MM wants you to buy their liquid fertilizer, which supplies potassium that is short in the MMM. While you can grow wonderful roses with MMM, Rose Tone and Plant Tone have a more appropriate analysis for roses, plus they are cheaper and easier to find. Ten years ago MMM had alfalfa and RT didn't, but now RT does. Today I don't know any reason to prefer MMM. dsd-- Rose Tone suggests a cup per month, which is excessive IMO. Roses 4'-5' wide could use a cup every two months. You may be seeing a benefit from MG because you aren't applying enough RT to keep up the nitrogen levels. This post was edited by michaelg on Wed, Jun 19, 13 at 10:13

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Reply to: They are similar. MM Mix has more phosphate, which is probably not helpful. I think the reason MMM is described as a soil conditioner rather than a fertilizer is that they don't want to be responsible for meeting the federal standards for maintaining the labeled NPK analysis, which is tricky with bulky organic materials. Also MM wants you to buy their liquid fertilizer, which supplies potassium that is short in the MMM. While you can grow wonderful roses with MMM, Rose Tone and Plant Tone have a more appropriate analysis for roses, plus they are cheaper and easier to find. Ten years ago MMM had alfalfa and RT didn't, but now RT does. Today I don't know any reason to prefer MMM. dsd-- Rose Tone suggests a cup per month, which is excessive IMO. Roses 4'-5' wide could use a cup every two months. You may be seeing a benefit from MG because you aren't applying enough RT to keep up the nitrogen levels. This post was edited by michaelg on Wed, Jun 19, 13 at 10:13

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pat_bamaz7

Thought of two more...lol. Princess Charlene de Monaco is very good. Borderer is new this year and in a big pot for now, but so far, so good. PCdM Borderer

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Reply to: Thought of two more...lol. Princess Charlene de Monaco is very good. Borderer is new this year and in a big pot for now, but so far, so good. PCdM Borderer

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DaisyinCrete
52

Old Photos from my Cretan garden

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Kristine LeGault 8a pnw

Kenneth started his own group called Rose Addicts. He does all kinds of video chats with guests even some rose rehoming. So he is probably focusing on that. There are already over 4000 members.

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Reply to: Kenneth started his own group called Rose Addicts. He does all kinds of video chats with guests even some rose rehoming. So he is probably focusing on that. There are already over 4000 members.

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cjrosaphile
13

Is Princess Caroline of Monaco a climber? Opinions about this rose?

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Lisa Adams
11

Is your Princess Charlene de Monaco this tall?

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Lisa Adams
34

Anyone grow both Princess Charlene de Monaco and DA’s Boscobel?

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strawchicago z5
363

Healthy no-spray roses along with healthy recipes

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TNY78
25

How Long Can Bare Roots Roses Soak For?

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Diane Brakefield

And more Twilight Zone. The Prince

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Reply to: And more Twilight Zone. The Prince

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Austin

Well Ben I went to Garden Web just now to do a post to see if you had gone to ground and ask why no pictures. Our Dallas fall weather has been unbelievable for roses and I knew if my new beds were performing then your garden must be stopping traffic for miles. The first post I saw listed was this- of your new rose beds and a new puppy... not sure which will give the greater joy. Like our children not fair to compare. :) But now I know what has been keeping you busy. My clematis are also spectacular, and they are one-year plants also. I need to post a thank you to all who recommended them for a Texas garden. What a joy to have 2 such super stars to give gardening pleasure. clematis with heliotrope I have loved the heliotrope this year as a front row annual in my lavender/orange/ buff yellow rose bed. It has been blooming nonstop since April never even slowed down when temps got over 100. This pic is from today. It is poison, We haven't heard from Judith in a while, where are you gal?

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Reply to: Well Ben I went to Garden Web just now to do a post to see if you had gone to ground and ask why no pictures. Our Dallas fall weather has been unbelievable for roses and I knew if my new beds were performing then your garden must be stopping traffic for miles. The first post I saw listed was this- of your new rose beds and a new puppy... not sure which will give the greater joy. Like our children not fair to compare. :) But now I know what has been keeping you busy. My clematis are also spectacular, and they are one-year plants also. I need to post a thank you to all who recommended them for a Texas garden. What a joy to have 2 such super stars to give gardening pleasure. clematis with heliotrope I have loved the heliotrope this year as a front row annual in my lavender/orange/ buff yellow rose bed. It has been blooming nonstop since April never even slowed down when temps got over 100. This pic is from today. It is poison, We haven't heard from Judith in a while, where are you gal?

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sara_ann-z6bok
37

My most fragrant rose

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Kenneth zone 7A - Southern Middle TN

New 2021 jackson & perkins Hybrid tea

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Reply to: New 2021 jackson & perkins Hybrid tea

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pacnwgrdngirl
6

Rhapsody in Blue & Midnight Blue

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sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)

Bliss was new to me this year. I really love it. The flowers are huge! Today's blooms. They arent normally this droopy but it rained buckets off and on the last 3 days. They held up pretty good for such large full flowers. Bliss on a cooler day with no rain.

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Reply to: Bliss was new to me this year. I really love it. The flowers are huge! Today's blooms. They arent normally this droopy but it rained buckets off and on the last 3 days. They held up pretty good for such large full flowers. Bliss on a cooler day with no rain.

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Kenneth zone 7A - Southern Middle TN

Fire Opal , Zaide , South Africa , PCDM

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Reply to: Fire Opal , Zaide , South Africa , PCDM

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dianela7analabama

Similar experience here. She is on 3rd year and stays compact 4feet or 5feet with 0 winter dieback. I have her next to Benjamin and he gets to 7 or 8 feet easily by fall while she stays compact. This year I pruned benji 3 times and Charlotte none. I have 3 Charlotte bushes planted together so here she doesn’t seem to get wide very fast.

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Reply to: Similar experience here. She is on 3rd year and stays compact 4feet or 5feet with 0 winter dieback. I have her next to Benjamin and he gets to 7 or 8 feet easily by fall while she stays compact. This year I pruned benji 3 times and Charlotte none. I have 3 Charlotte bushes planted together so here she doesn’t seem to get wide very fast.

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oldrosarian

I know I sound weird complaining about roses that do well, but here goes. I got excited about First Crush as I like white roses. So because it was stated as being around 32 inches, I gave it to 3 feet in my garden. I planted it on the edge and this is what t grew to. It is 6 feet and still growing up the drain pipe.. I planted another First Crush, again because it was short, at the base of the 8 foot garden shed. Here is that one it is ??? must be 7 feet or over because of the roof line Some "little ones" like Pink Martini, classified as a Patio Rose 28 ", grew way past that and then bent right over the steps, creating a death trap. It looks like it's vomiting. Here is a two year old Cream Veranda which is 4 feet and growing. Poor photo of mature Solero Vigorosa 4 feet would be taller if it didn't flop Solero Vigorosa showing bendy canes A photo of Dark Desire in the back, which must be at least 7 feet tall. As I am not 8 feet tall, it makes it impossible to dead head the flowers

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Reply to: I know I sound weird complaining about roses that do well, but here goes. I got excited about First Crush as I like white roses. So because it was stated as being around 32 inches, I gave it to 3 feet in my garden. I planted it on the edge and this is what t grew to. It is 6 feet and still growing up the drain pipe.. I planted another First Crush, again because it was short, at the base of the 8 foot garden shed. Here is that one it is ??? must be 7 feet or over because of the roof line Some "little ones" like Pink Martini, classified as a Patio Rose 28 ", grew way past that and then bent right over the steps, creating a death trap. It looks like it's vomiting. Here is a two year old Cream Veranda which is 4 feet and growing. Poor photo of mature Solero Vigorosa 4 feet would be taller if it didn't flop Solero Vigorosa showing bendy canes A photo of Dark Desire in the back, which must be at least 7 feet tall. As I am not 8 feet tall, it makes it impossible to dead head the flowers

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monarda_gw

In the very old days, Cornelia used to get the very highest marks on the American Rose Society ratings list, and I confess, for years I wondered why. But now I know. For one thing, in those days when everyone relied on pesticides, her graceful foliage gets no disease. In The Fragrant Year, Helen Van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell write that you have to be a few feet away to smell the musks. The scent, which is produced by the stamens, is not so perceptible close up. They claimed that in full bloom Cornelia would "perfume not one garden but an entire neighborhood." They also recommend that musk roses in general be given time to build up wood before being judged.

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Reply to: In the very old days, Cornelia used to get the very highest marks on the American Rose Society ratings list, and I confess, for years I wondered why. But now I know. For one thing, in those days when everyone relied on pesticides, her graceful foliage gets no disease. In The Fragrant Year, Helen Van Pelt Wilson and Léonie Bell write that you have to be a few feet away to smell the musks. The scent, which is produced by the stamens, is not so perceptible close up. They claimed that in full bloom Cornelia would "perfume not one garden but an entire neighborhood." They also recommend that musk roses in general be given time to build up wood before being judged.

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oldrosarian

In my PNW garden, Felicia is the show off. I have most of the Hybrid Musks and she and Prosperity bloom the most. Felicia needs to be pruned hard or she will make growth at the expense of blooming. She also does best in full sun. Cornelia is totally different. She is a star in semi shade and makes a 5 foot shrub which then gracefully bends over. This of course encourages more buds and so more flowers. In the PNW Felicity goes pink in full sun Cornelia goes peachy pink in semi shade.

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Reply to: In my PNW garden, Felicia is the show off. I have most of the Hybrid Musks and she and Prosperity bloom the most. Felicia needs to be pruned hard or she will make growth at the expense of blooming. She also does best in full sun. Cornelia is totally different. She is a star in semi shade and makes a 5 foot shrub which then gracefully bends over. This of course encourages more buds and so more flowers. In the PNW Felicity goes pink in full sun Cornelia goes peachy pink in semi shade.

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erasmus_gw

I agree that Felicia is better as a freestanding plant. It's shrubby and usually sturdy unless it's in full bloom and rains. Mine reblooms very well in big flushes. Mine's by the hot street. Cornelia is more lax and needs a support, so might be good on your fence. Felicia is very fragrant. Cornelia is also fragrant but I think a little less so. I do remember seeing a picture of Felicia grown on an arch in Jon of Wessex's garden. I guess you could train it while canes are young. Felicia Cornelia

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Reply to: I agree that Felicia is better as a freestanding plant. It's shrubby and usually sturdy unless it's in full bloom and rains. Mine reblooms very well in big flushes. Mine's by the hot street. Cornelia is more lax and needs a support, so might be good on your fence. Felicia is very fragrant. Cornelia is also fragrant but I think a little less so. I do remember seeing a picture of Felicia grown on an arch in Jon of Wessex's garden. I guess you could train it while canes are young. Felicia Cornelia

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catspa_zone9sunset14

Her scent is heavenly. 'Cornelia' is one of the few hybrid musks that do well here. As Jeri notes, they don't like heat or drought, which, unfortunately, is what we have a lot of the time. Here she grows up against a fence in a relatively cool spot and blooms most of the spring-summer-fall. She would be a sprawler if left to her own devices.

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Reply to: Her scent is heavenly. 'Cornelia' is one of the few hybrid musks that do well here. As Jeri notes, they don't like heat or drought, which, unfortunately, is what we have a lot of the time. Here she grows up against a fence in a relatively cool spot and blooms most of the spring-summer-fall. She would be a sprawler if left to her own devices.

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nastarana

I think you should browse through Vintage Garden's list of large flowered climbers. The site has good descriptions and pictures of many. Awakening, the beautiful sport of New Dawn would look well on your porch. A little known cultivar which has large, dark pink, old-fashoined formed blooms, and excellent repeat, is Cherryade. It was introduced by a Dutch breeder and should be hardy for you. You might like to look at some of the beautiful and hardy climbers from Kordes, such as Rosanna and Rosarium Uetersen. I think you don't need to settle for a once blooming climber when there are so many excellent repeat blooming choices. Paul's Himalayan Musk is massive and usually grown into trees. Albas can be trained to climb, but I think they have a natural stately elegance when grown as free standing shrubs. Albas, IMHO, are at their best used as hedgerow plants. They are so extraordinarily healthy that vines, even smothering morning glories, can be draped over them with the alba plants showing little or no ill effects. If you are thinking of ordering from Rogue Valley, you might ask Mrs. Ineda for a recommendation. I have spoken with her by phone; she is gracious, helpful and very knowledgeable about growing roses.

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Reply to: I think you should browse through Vintage Garden's list of large flowered climbers. The site has good descriptions and pictures of many. Awakening, the beautiful sport of New Dawn would look well on your porch. A little known cultivar which has large, dark pink, old-fashoined formed blooms, and excellent repeat, is Cherryade. It was introduced by a Dutch breeder and should be hardy for you. You might like to look at some of the beautiful and hardy climbers from Kordes, such as Rosanna and Rosarium Uetersen. I think you don't need to settle for a once blooming climber when there are so many excellent repeat blooming choices. Paul's Himalayan Musk is massive and usually grown into trees. Albas can be trained to climb, but I think they have a natural stately elegance when grown as free standing shrubs. Albas, IMHO, are at their best used as hedgerow plants. They are so extraordinarily healthy that vines, even smothering morning glories, can be draped over them with the alba plants showing little or no ill effects. If you are thinking of ordering from Rogue Valley, you might ask Mrs. Ineda for a recommendation. I have spoken with her by phone; she is gracious, helpful and very knowledgeable about growing roses.

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barbarag_happy

Cornelia has been outstanding under the canopy of a tall wild cherry tree; she probably only gets 3 to 4 hours of actual sun, but the area would qualify as bright shade. A climbing arborist thinned the cherry for us and from time to time shortens the laterals. I love the bright buds which contrast with the flowers, and her fragrance is wonderful. I did not restrain her as a youngster so she is at least ten feet across. Well under four feet high.

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Reply to: Cornelia has been outstanding under the canopy of a tall wild cherry tree; she probably only gets 3 to 4 hours of actual sun, but the area would qualify as bright shade. A climbing arborist thinned the cherry for us and from time to time shortens the laterals. I love the bright buds which contrast with the flowers, and her fragrance is wonderful. I did not restrain her as a youngster so she is at least ten feet across. Well under four feet high.

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Carolina Girl (Zone 8b)

Below pic from mid May. Kordes Sunbeam bought it at Lowe’s and this is the BEST rose I have as far as BS goes. And it’s a mega reblooming machine as long as you keep it deadheaded. Our heat and humidity and full on sun didn’t phase it last summer the only drawback is there is no fragrance and it’s super thorny. it looked like this is March when I bought it

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Reply to: Below pic from mid May. Kordes Sunbeam bought it at Lowe’s and this is the BEST rose I have as far as BS goes. And it’s a mega reblooming machine as long as you keep it deadheaded. Our heat and humidity and full on sun didn’t phase it last summer the only drawback is there is no fragrance and it’s super thorny. it looked like this is March when I bought it

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nippstress - zone 5 Nebraska

I've had Solero Vigorosa in my mailbox bed for about 4 years and it's a killer great rose. It blooms all the time in hot dry "hell-strip" conditions, and stays below 2 feet or so without any work. It doesn't spread that much, but makes a nice tidy mound maybe 3-4' wide and 2' high. The only minor down side is that the yellow pales to cream quickly in the sun and gets a bit ratty looking when spent. I tend to deadhead this one pretty frequently, and since it blooms a LOT it feels like I'm always trimming off dead blooms from this plant. Still, I'm extremely happy with it and it's a great fit for a short rose. Healthy foliage like so many Kordes roses, and very robustly winter hardy for me. No experience with Purple Rain, but it sounds like from Patty's comments it's also healthy, just not a particularly appealing color. Cynthia

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Reply to: I've had Solero Vigorosa in my mailbox bed for about 4 years and it's a killer great rose. It blooms all the time in hot dry "hell-strip" conditions, and stays below 2 feet or so without any work. It doesn't spread that much, but makes a nice tidy mound maybe 3-4' wide and 2' high. The only minor down side is that the yellow pales to cream quickly in the sun and gets a bit ratty looking when spent. I tend to deadhead this one pretty frequently, and since it blooms a LOT it feels like I'm always trimming off dead blooms from this plant. Still, I'm extremely happy with it and it's a great fit for a short rose. Healthy foliage like so many Kordes roses, and very robustly winter hardy for me. No experience with Purple Rain, but it sounds like from Patty's comments it's also healthy, just not a particularly appealing color. Cynthia

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Diane Brakefield

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Moonlight in Paris

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