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fambufivo

Builder says 48” hood liner for 60” wolf range is ok

RC Block
2 years ago

Im building and have selected a wolf 60 inch dual fuel range with griddle. We are having a wooden hood custom made, but the 60 inch liner can’t be inserted because the clips can’t get past a certain point in the hood design because it curves. The builder and cabinet maker both say going to a 48” hood will fix this problem but I wasn’t convinced it was a good idea. The wooden hood will stay 60” but the liner will only be. 48” I’m not sure what will be in the empty space. (Pic is not mine but similar layout with windows, cabinets & tiled wall. Mine is still under construction.)

I have seen some similar questions but the answers are very technical. I don’t understand cfm, mua etc. so it sounds like a bad idea but then every few answers makes it seem ok. Thank you for any advice.

Featured Answer
  • User
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    You can not have a 48” liner over a 60” range. 🤦🏽 The entire bottom of any piece of wood portion needs to be covered in stainless. That’s the absolute minimum safe thing to do. With only a 48” insert, you’d need to give up using the outer burners, which means you might as well just go with a 48” range.

    This is a red tag or a fire, waiting to happen,

    Comments (29)

    • cheri127
      2 years ago

      We just moved into a house with a 36" hood liner over a 48" Wolf range, and while it works ok, it's not great. Depends on how you cook I suppose.

    • Buehl
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      If the hood is 6" WIDER than the range, would it then fit correctly? Ideally, the hood should be 6" wider than the cooking surface - especially if it's a high-power range or it has a griddle and you plan to use the griddle. So, a 60" range would, ideally, have a 66"W hood above it (and at least 24" deep).

      The clips would probably fit with a 66" wide hood.

      The empty spaces in your scenario will become grease and gunk collectors.

    • kaseki
      2 years ago

      CFM = cubic feet of air per minute. There has to be enough for the hood to contain the cooking effluent it captures. This depends on how large the hood entry area is and the upward velocity of the cooking plume(s). The amount you get depends on the blower rating and the amount of restriction that the air path presents.

      MUA = make-up air. The air brought into the kitchen that replaces the air pulled into the hood and transferred outdoors. No air leaves via the hood that hasn't been supplied to the kitchen. Restrictive MUA reduces hood CFM and also house pressure, possibly causing back-drafting of combustion appliances.

      Perhaps your builder intends to only supply gas to the middle burners. The outer burners can be used for a landing zone, or for appearances.

    • rwiegand
      2 years ago

      For best function you want the hood wider than the cooktop. For a 60" range I'd use a 72" hood-- but I make a lot of smoke when I cook! Such a hood should also be wide and deep, a large capture area will make more efficient use of your blower.


      In well-sealed houses with big hoods I'd strongly recommend using only sealed combustion furnaces and water heaters to eliminate back-drafting. That way you can just open a window or door to provide MUA rather than having to rely on a complex and expensive mechanical system-- unless your local code requires the latter.

    • User
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      Builder is an idiot is a given. But the KD that has their hand in this isnt a bright bulb either. This is a commercial level setup,and needs a commercial level awareness about the fire hazards you’re creating. You need a 66”-72”hood, with a non combustible metal stud wall assembly, or the required backguard, and 2400 CFM, with a heated MUA system. About a 30-40K setup. Not the $1.98 halfass that the builder is trying for.

    • M Miller
      2 years ago

      Since you said you are still in the building stage, you have time to correct the issue. It doesn't take much reasoning to figure that a range that is 60" wide will not be properly covered by a hood insert that is 12" narrower. Add to that your wood trim on the hood which requires more protection than if the whole thing had been a metal hood. Making the hood 66" wide with a wider insert would solve the problems.

      Any thought to ditching that hood design and getting a metal hood instead? You'd still need full coverage of the insert, but you'd have more options on what to buy - check out ModernAire hoods. Here are a couple images I quickly downloaded but they can make any shape or color you want, and you don't need the banding, it's just what came up first.

      https://modernaire.com/photo-gallery/





    • kaseki
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      Depending on your hood's volume under the baffles, i.e., residential design vs. commercial design, you may be OK with 90 CFM/sq. ft. A 72 x 24 inch hood aperture is 12 sq. ft. requiring 1100 CFM actual (for hot oil or grease cooking). This would apply for a hood not over 36 inches over the cooktop. Higher means larger to start, and this grows not only as the plumes expand, but also as compensation for air turbulence and cross drafts broadening and displacing the plumes.

      A 1600 CFM rated blower may do for this case, depending on hood system path restrictions -- both into and out of the house. (Note at these flow rate levels, pressure loss in window screens is significant, so several windows might need to be opened to get required CFM with the rated CFM blower.) For most of us, window MUA would only be tolerable in very temperate locations; else a filtered, heated, and blown MUA system is necessary.

      A 66 x 24 (11 sq. ft.) hood would require 1000 CFM from a 1500 CFM rated blower. I have a 60 x 27 hood using such a blower. My cooking surfaces below it are induction, however, so it isn't stressed by a large number of gas burners. Ideally, where practicable to fit and acceptable aesthetically, @opaone's more commercial hood approach may provide better performance at lower cost.

    • RC Block
      Original Author
      2 years ago

      Thank you. They did end up making the hood 66” actually but for some reason the “clips” can’t pass some restrictive point in the design. So we’ll have a 60” range, 66” hood and 48” liner. The builder, cabinet maker and appliance rep all say it’s fine to use a smaller hood liner than range since I rarely use all burners at once but all the articles etc say it’s a safety hazard.

    • Shannon_WI
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      “So we’ll have a 60” range, 66” hood and 48” liner.”

      I would not do that that, that is a no. The ”builder, cabinet maker and appliance rep” know it too, but are hoping you’ll give in so they won’t have to correct their mistake. These kinds of hoods are found in upscale kitchens all over the place, and do not have a ”clip” issue. The ”clip” issue is due to faulty design or faulty construction, it is not normal, and that is the bottom line.

      Alternatively, downsize your range.

    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      There's the wood hood, a stainless steel liner and an insert. As long as you have a SS liner, you can do a smaller blower package width. Just make sure the CFM's are powerful enough for your range. BTW....Those curved hood designs are very problematic in fitting with ventilation.

    • dan1888
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      Some range setups aren't primarily meant for cooking. The design of the space requires a large focal point range to accomplish the level of conspicuousness the designer needs throughout the project. In those cases a large hood with a smaller insert and no or limited makeup air matches the reality of the actual use. This seems likely here from the way this is developing. Kinda a 90s vibe.

    • RC Block
      Original Author
      2 years ago

      Yes I agree. The range is aesthetic and conspicuous. Functionally we could be fine with a simple 4 burner from Home Depot. We cook very simple family breakfast & dinners 7 days a week. But the home is stately, so the kitchen is too. Also it’s great for holiday cooking & parties. The hood will be lined stainless with the 48” blower pkg in the center ... I guess the motor/cfm will be the same one for the 48 that they were going to use for the. 60 ...variable motor with 1200cfm. I agree that it was a design issue. We bought the 60 and built a hood for it...but it wouldn’t fit in the hood as built because of the curved lines, so the 48 is plan b. With current supply chain & cost issues I think everyone is just wanting to get past one more delay.

    • dan1888
      2 years ago

      Another current choice for that type of home would have been a 36" induction cooktop. A convection oven with a plumbed Combi-Steam oven in a stack seperately. You could still use the 48" insert. MUA as required. Just a bit understated.

    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago

      RC, earlier this year a client of mine had the exact same issue. Shiloh cabinetry supplied the hood "shell" but they wouldn't give us the specs (liability issues is all I can guess)...they would only give us a list of blower packages they offered that would fit. She wanted something larger, so she ordered a pro insert with baffles. It wouldn't fit. We ended up having to do the same thing you are doing. We went slightly smaller on a blower package (width) but the CFMS are adequate. The capture area of the hood is 6" wider than her 48" range. It works fine for her.

    • M Miller
      2 years ago

      "The capture area of the hood is 6" wider than her 48" range. It works fine for her."

      Except this entire thread is about a hood with an insert that is 18" narrower than the hood. Dysfunctional and a potential fire hazard depending on how they deal with the 18". And no one has mentioned the depth of the insert, which I am betting is also inadequate.

    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago

      As long as the wood hood is 30" to 36" above the range and her CFMs are 1200-1500, they are fine. The capture area is at a minimum 60" and as long as the blower CFMS are what I stated above, this is an OK install. Is a wider hood better? Yes....but this will be ok. Am I missing something?


    • M Miller
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      @The Kitchen Place - just trying to understand with a very expensive 60" range and hood, how it is OK not to be able to exhaust the burners on either end, i.e. 4 of the burners. Why would anyone want to do that? I don't want to get into a debate with you. I just cannot imagine spending the thousands on this setup. I mean, it is expensive, and you are "this will be OK". My philosophy is different from yours on this kind of expenditure.

    • PRO
      Kitchen Magic
      2 years ago

      Hi M. Miller--I think you have the wrong contact here. Kitchen Magic did not contribute to this conversation string.

      Best

      Kitchen Magic

    • M Miller
      2 years ago

      @Kitchen Magic - I apologize. I've fixed it. When I typed the "@Kitchen" your tag must have come up and I didn't notice it until you pointed it out.


    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago

      Not saying it couldn't have been done better to fit the hood liner she wanted. But you need to roll with the punches and make things work when remodeling. Her custom wood hood is already being made or finished already. If this was a rectangular hood, there wouldn't be a problem. So...You find a blower package that will fit and follow the manufacturer recommendations. The CFMs and the height of the hood from the range. Those are what's important,


      One more thing I think that people don't realize. The blower width does not need to be the exact width of the range....the capture area does though (or wider). Would it be better if the blower could be wider? Sure....but in the long run, the 48" will work fine as long as the CFMs are high enough.


      If money isn't an option, build a bigger hood. If it is....then make it work to manufacturer specifications.




    • User
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      Of course the *blower package” can be more narrow, or located remotely even. The stainless insert that covers all the wood, cannot. The entire bottom of the hood, that holds the filtration system has to be stainless clad. That may take a custom creation by a local fabricator. But a 60” should be easily available. It may need a bit of a trim, to be shallower top to bottom, to fit within the curve. That isn’t a big deal to the right GC. One of the ”all in one” packages is exactly the wrong product to use here.

    • RC Block
      Original Author
      2 years ago

      I may be confusing the issue by not knowing the terminology. The range is 60” and the custom wood hood was originally 60” but when the 60” insert would not fit because the curve, they extended the wood hood to 66”. But it still didn’t fit, so they kept the 66” hood size but went to a 48” insert in the center and lined the remainder of the 66” hood in stainless to create a 66” capture area with a 48” center blower/filter, the motor stayed the same variable max 1200cfm. I think he said he was mounting at 33” to be in the middle of the 30-36” allowable zone. We are mainly constricted by supply chain / backlog issues.

    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      Sorry...I think there is some terminology confusion here. I think we all think the same thing. The liner can't be 48". I assumed terms were being mixed up...since a liner rework isn't that big of deal. Absolutely...the bottom should all be clad in SS. People were using both liner and insert. Which is it? A 60" liner, a 48" blower package insert is fine. A 48" liner is not good.

      OP...can you verify what this "liner" is that you mentioned. A liner is different than a hood insert.

      liner is a thin SS covering...like this. This needs to be 60".



      An blower package-insert is like this: This can be 48" but installed WITH the liner above.



      The blower fan motor can be part of the hood insert or it can go somewhere inline....or it can go on the outside of the house (ie remote blower).

    • Kompy
      2 years ago

      Haha RC we posted at the same time. My appointment just got here. I’ll read and reply later

    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago
      last modified: 2 years ago

      That is me above...somehow from my phone, it posts from my original Gardenweb profile. Pic is my sweet grandma Thelma.

    • PRO
      The Kitchen Place
      2 years ago

      RC what you posted above to clarify sounds good to me. The LINER covers the 60" area. You are 33" away from combustible material...you are good to go.

    • RC Block
      Original Author
      2 years ago

      Thank you for taking the time to clarify! Yes I was using liner , insert, blower, filter all interchangeably. Sorry for the confusion! Before posting I tried to google for answers & I read an article that said they were all the same thing ... but I see through this thread they are different. Thanks everyone for your help!

    • kaseki
      2 years ago

      Note that further confusion may occur based on differences in naming by different manufacturers. For example, Wolf uses "liner" to refer to a hood function assembly 19 or 22 inches deep with filter and optional blower that goes into a cabinet like structure tailored for it. The liner is essentially a hood without exterior finishing. Sizes up to 58 inches wide are available. For insertion into standard cabinets, Wolf defines the "insert." This tends to be self contained (motor ordered separately) but fits into common 12-inch deep cabinets. Assemblies that are intended to present a stainless steel external appearance are labeled "hoods."

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