HELP!! How to lay out our new kitchen. I am going mad!

Comments (15)

Artistic Interiors
3 years ago
Hi Ben,

The first pencil drawn plan that you have looks like a really good use of space - excellent in fact. The kitchen layout looks functional, the utility closet (awesome), storage good, and enough room for lounge seating & dining directly near the garden. You might consider bench seating along the right wall so it better uses the dining space. Also the extra enclosed reception space & the w/c placement looks good too.

So what exactly is the issue with this plan? Is it the plumbing, or is there something else?

If it is the plumbing, and your plumbing is on the left side of the house, you may need to reconfigure the left wall of walled cabinetry (assuming that is what they are) and include the sink there opposite the island (leaving the island appliance free or put the range / hob there with a hidden extractor fan). I know it is not ideal but you can add a mirrored backsplash or just a statement mirror in front of the sink - both of which can look really good. This may be your only compromise to get everything you want - as given your traffic pattern layout, this is challenging, but like you, I do like the enclosed utility space and would hate to have to give that up - which also requires plumbing, so is there an issue with this too - still confused, sorry - ? ). You can also put your coffee maker / microwave / double ovens (if not going for a range) next to the sink. If you use this, you may also want to consider making the island more square than rectangle (just increase the island's size by making it a bit deeper), as this will just be easier to use with the new sink placement & put the hob / range more to the right of the island (if you put it there). These layout options will give you a nice triangle shaped work zone. You can then consider putting 1 or 2 full cabinets on the right wall to compensate for the loss of these on the left. It can be done well & look great.

Best wishes
Ben Selby thanked Artistic Interiors
CHARLOTTE HILL-BALDWIN
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Hi Ben. An interesting conundrum. You have such a great space and all the options you show incorporate a great amount of cabinetry in addition to construction works. As a kitchen design consultant, the second question I would ask is, what budget you are working within as that will influence the layout considerably. I know that no one likes to talk this put their budget out there, but at the end of the day it is important to have a guide, so your designer proposes the right quality and quantity. Functioning with a pantry for food and large utensil storage means making it very easily accessible from the main preparation area – or you get a keep fit kitchen! It may be better to incorporate a fitted larder and keep the utility to just that. Consider creating a shape on the left-hand side that incorporates the utility and wc and also protects the sink area from walk-through to the seating space and garden, you then contain the wet elements and get a flow around the space that is more pleasing for the chef.

Happy to consult, further if required. Best regards from Charlotte

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Ben Selby thanked CHARLOTTE HILL-BALDWIN
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I would still do an island. You have the space. I hate having my stove against the wall. You get boxed in and forget about two people working at once. How about stove in island, fridge all the way down to the right? You don't want the fridge to interrupt work space. You will end up w two too-small spaces instead of one nice functional one. We had an island with a downdraft Jenn-air stove-worked quite well for most needs.
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In the main I agree with Patricia. I would move the dining table to the living area, move the living area to the kids room, move the island a little more to the right so it is just a little more over than the width of the entrance walkway, at the moment it is more to the left and almost interrupts the entry flow enough to keep catching your self on the edge, with the table moved it will allow this, plus there may be enough room for more storage on the right hand wall decorative or practical and naturally shallower than standard depth, consider what it would be used for then you can make an informed decision on depth. The island sink and bin are not far from the tall unit pantry and fridge, so no I don't think they are to far away, whatever you get from these places are to be opened probably by the sink or bin, or opened to eat from the packaging. Also why would you have a log burner and an aga in the same room unless your aga is an electric one? They both give of tremendous heat, an aga is constant and unless you have planned for other oven types it will be year round so summer as well, as Patricia mentioned bare in mind how the sun transits your house, where it's position is when you will be in these areas which I'm guessing will be most of the time. I know plenty of people who gave had " improvements revamps etc" to their kitchen dining living spaces with plenty of regrets, loads of glass to bring the outside in, underfloor heating and an aga, the underfloor heating is switched off you can't zone it to where you want it, and the aga gives of to much heat with the glass combined, all the hard surfaces, no acoustics were considered by the so called "architects" sound is a problem too, something else to consider, someone else had to have some of their new kitchen change to make room for an air conditioning unit because of the heat, this is very expensive to run constantly, summers are almost unbearable, these things also affect materials being used such as leather and wood drying out and cracking/splitting. I hope this has been helpful. Kind regards Barbara
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PRO
OnePlan
3 years ago
Hi - just stopped working for lunch - so thought I’d pop on Houzz to see what’s going on.... interesting ideas - not sure on the first one - as you need to trail through the hall to kitchen door with your laundry basket and then go through the double doors into the hidden area - so needs to be easy access when your hands are full ... - with a depth of of 1500mm it leaves only 900mm crouch room in front of the appliances (if they are on the long side ) so it’s a bit tight - might work better if you split this space into pantry accesses on right side of kitchen and laundry accessed with a door opposite loo ? Lots to consider with the rest of it - if you do decide to design this fully yourself - can I suggest you get a credible pro to safety check it before you place an order ?? As if you put your sink on left and hob on island you are crossing the main route with boiling pans - and that’s not safe ...
Ben Selby thanked OnePlan
Ellie
3 years ago
First thing I noticed........ ate you chopping a bit off your living room to use as a utility? What length does that leave the living room? I don't think that's a good idea....
Ben Selby
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@Ellie we are leaving the living room untouched and taking some of the existing kitchen space for the utility/pantry. I think the room is big enough, but don't want to create a kitchen that feels hectic and a cramped utility just because we want both rooms.
Ben Selby
Original Author
3 years ago
@OnePlan thanks so much for the response. To be honest I am trying to get my head around what would and wouldn't be a good layout so I can go and speak to a pro.

The first layout works the best from a storage perspective but as soon as I try to add appliances and the sink it becomes a little trickier, the issue you pointed out being the worst of them.

I wonder if I am biting off more than the room can chew by trying to add the utility space...
PRO
OnePlan
3 years ago
Well I probably couldn’t do your job - so any fair that you might struggle to do mine !! Lol - taking off which lunch is over and I need to get back to it ! No rest for the wicked and all that !!
Jonathan
3 years ago
I like the idea of the utility between the kitchen and living room as it means a preserved sight line from the front door all the way through the house.
I think this layout has several divisions with traffic routes so the concealed door seems to just divide the space again. I would put the door into the utility from hall instead, and as OnePlan said make the utility a shade wider to make it less cramped.
This is of course just one of several successful layouts and actually a Concept Planner might be invaluable.
Ben Selby
Original Author
3 years ago
@Jonathan Thank you, I need a mixture of architect, structural engineer and kitchen designer to map out the best use of the space (there is a structural wall by the stairs to be removed). Is this what you mean by Concept Planner? Often the biggest blocker to finding contractors is not knowing who to speak to.
Ben Selby
Original Author
3 years ago
@Artistic Interiors Thanks! The first one has a fair few issues eg where do all the appliances go? How do we ensure the fridge is not clashing with other areas. It is close to be a wonderful room, but needs some tweaking to get it right. Main issue is having hob and sink either side of the main traffic route through the room...
Artistic Interiors
3 years ago
Hi Ben -

First, we need to establish the plumbing situation. Since your 1st pencil drawing plan (the plan that is ideal for function, space and what you said you wanted assuming the measurements all work out - if you designed this yourself, you should be proud) shows that you will be feeding plumbing into the utility room, is it possible to run additional sink plumbing to either the island or to the cabinets against the shared wall with the utility room?

If it is possible, then the plan you have now is ideal for storage, usage, layout and everything else, with the one change of putting the sink in the middle of the island (you need space on one side to stack your dishes that need to be washed & space on the other to stack your clean dishes to dry and then be put away). If you prefer to use the island for prep - breakfast bar ? - and serving then placing your sink in the back wall of cabinets with enough room on either side and a planning for comfortable standing space (again you can put a statement mirror there if you don't want to be stairing at the wall when doing dishes) would work very well too. Either of these options would be ideal with your layout.

The fridge is fine where you have it - just make sure there is enough room to open the door (back of door should end up parallel to your main traffic tunnel) or get a double door one (American Style).

If because of plumbing, you need to locate the sink on the left wall - honestly the health & safety thing for a house hold (it is not a thorough fair for business or pedestrian traffic) is really just about using commong sense and being smart. Yes there will be more traffic through that area than would be through the other parts of your kitchen, but it isn't a runway of constant passers by. Everytime I move a hot pan or pot with boiling water from the hob or oven, across a pathway to the sink, I always look around before swinging the pot out and starting the journey, as does every one else I hope. Just use common sense - I often think that although many H&S issues are important and valid, sometimes it is used as a way to get people to react to concerns so they will buy more stuff rather than something that is a real issue. Unless there is some specific issue to deal with for your family or situation or you still feel it is a valid concern - common sense and looking around should do the trick.

Let me know about the plumbing situation and I can walk you throug appliance placement for either senario.

Best wishes!
Ben Selby thanked Artistic Interiors
Ben Selby
Original Author
3 years ago
@Artistic Interiors Thanks so much for the detailed response!

I did do it myself so thanks! Quite enjoyed coming up with all the different options, my girlfriend thinks I have gone mad.

In terms of plumbing, we will be laying a new floor and we know there is roughly a 40cm cavity below the floor, so I think there should be enough space for running pipework to the island if that is where we choose to have the sink.

I've been trying to work out a few options, sink on the left hand wall, sink on island, sink up against the pantry etc – I don't know which one would suit us better. Then trying to get a big american style fridge freezer, dishwasher and range cooker placed in a way that makes for a kitchen that is enjoyable to use.

Attached is a slightly updated plan, with a smaller pantry and a laundry cupboard accessed from the hall to make the washing machine more accessible. I also attached a more accurate blank floorplan that shows the two pillars holding up the steel for the extension that I have previously been ignoring :)

Thanks!
Artistic Interiors
3 years ago
Hi Ben,

As we get into the nitty gritty details with measurements and everything, then that starts to really get into a checking everything, very time-consuming situation to make sure all the elements of your project will fit and work out. I am retired now, but may I suggest once we get the big stuff laid out, then you (if you feel confident) or get a professional to check over the entire plan to make sure everything works for the measurements, spaces, appliances you are looking at, etc. A kitchen designer may help, but would really try to find someone who can 'consult' on the whole plan. That way you know everything checks out when it comes time to do the buiding works & installation. If you have a kitchen designer as well, usually part of the kitchen sales package, they can then double check all of the kitchen & utility stuff.

What I can do is tell you in functional terms what I know will work better for layout given your building constraints, day-to-day living, etc.

First, I like the row of tall cabinets along the left side - this will allow for optimum storage - even a coat closet in the first cabinet if there isn't enough space in the entry. Plus for all the dishwear you may not use everyday but are helpful for extra guests, and for the option of sticking in a built-in microwave & coffee maker, if not another better place. So if you can keep this, then great. If not, then it can be configured partially or wholly like your standard kitchen units.

Plan 1 - this plan depends on how you want to use the island and the dimensions of it (if it is big enough).
- Sink ideal in island really. The sink doesn't have to be centered, but there needs to be at least 30cm on the smaller side of it min as you don't want dishes falling off - 50-60cm is ideal of course.
- Dishwasher - If you are left handed, put your dishwasher just right of the sink and if you are right handed, put it just left of the sink.
- Range on other side of utility door
- Fridge as is
Plan 2 -
- Island clear
- Sink other side of utility door
- Sink placement makes dishwasher placement tricky - if enough space then to right of sink
- Range on right side wall
- Fridge as is
Plan 3 -
- Island clear
- Sink on right side wall (if plumbing is doable)
- Dishwasher - If you are left handed, put your dishwasher just right of the sink and if you are right handed, put it just left of the sink.
- Range on other side of utility door
- Fridge as is
Plan 4 -
- Built-in coffee / microwave station in tall cabinet where Rridge is shown now
- Sink ideal in island really. The sink doesn't have to be centered, but there needs to be at least 30cm on the smaller side of it min as you don't want dishes falling off - 50-60cm is ideal of course.
- Dishwasher - If you are left handed, put your dishwasher just right of the sink and if you are right handed, put it just left of the sink.
- Range on other side of utility door
- Fridge at the end of the cabinetry on the right wall
All of these layout plans give you a useable and functional working zone (usually triangle shaped for sink - range - fridge) that isn't too spread out to become a neusance. Also, they each aford you a viable counter prep space or two for chopping and preparing your meals.

Your partner may think you are mad, but that is why people hire designers - because most plans need to be worked and reworked, taking in to account loads of factors, preferences, and incorporating great design as well as dealing with copius measurements. This is why hours and hours can and often should be spent on getting things right in the planning. I can't tell you the number of houses I've visited where people have had work done that just didn't function well for them in the end. It is worth it to spend the time over it now and if you need to - hire help or get a professional to double-check you work. It usually saves money and hopefully loads of frustration down the road.

Best wishes and Good Luck!
Ben Selby thanked Artistic Interiors
Artistic Interiors
3 years ago
Oh! P.S. -

You can move your cabinet - door opening for the utility up or down or to the end of the back wall cabinets if that helps fit everything in with the right measurements. Get your kitchen to work, then your utility / larder, etc etc etc. The idea is to get the overall plan to work, and then work each area individually until it works - rejigging the whole plan at any stage a little bit here and there if needed.

You really are doing great Ben! Keep it up :)

Best wishes!

Ireland

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HELP!! How to lay out our new kitchen. I am going mad!

Jonathan

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HELP!! How to lay out our new kitchen. I am going mad!

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