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Design DilemmaKitchens
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help with utility spacing - had to change it!

Tani H-S
5 years ago

Not sure why the plumber didn't see this issue before, but our narrow utility off our new kitchen that I had planned has to be changed.


Reason is that the water/waste pipes can't go under the floor due to the base of the house being thick concrete and they couldn't core it out.


SO.

Now I have to put the sink and the washing machine on the wall side which has just messed everything up as I don't think it will fit and I also lose some low space as well as I wanted to stack the washer/dryer together but the boiler is on the wall above where the washing machine will need to go.


To recap ...


The Utility is being made out of the temporary kitchen and will be split as follows:-


Utility; - 2220 wide X 110 deep.

That leaves 75mm for a stud wall and then then behind the utility, the bathroom (which will service 2 x GF bedrooms) which is approx. 2220 wide X 1.8m deep. It's not big.


I can't really pinch anymore from the bathroom as the 1.8 also includes taking out about 200mm off the end as there is a gas mains box there and I can't move it etc so it has to stay. So it will have a 1.6m bath or walk in shower.


So my question is ... can I get a single sink AND a washing machine into a 1100 space?? Some trickery I can apply ?? LOL.


The tumble dryer will have to go on the opposite wall now as that is condensing so no external vent needed.


Photos show mock up of the original idea...




Featured Answer
  • obobble
    5 years ago
    Tani, if you use your understairs area for drying, consider also using a small portable dehumidifier to stop it getting fusty. I find they help stuff dry faster too, including washed dogs so it could also be moved into utility if you shut dogs in there to dry out.

    Comments (25)

    • Carolina
      5 years ago

      Just lose the sink?


    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      LOL. Nooooo. We need one in here for washing dirty stuff in ie dog things, my work paints etc.

      The single sink in the kitchen will only be for prep and not used for dirty stuff.


      That's the main use for it so really don't want to lose it.


      Do you think a 400 sink would work?? Not even sure they exist. haha

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    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      This one could work, no? It's deeper than standard bowls apparantely and only 400mm wide..


      https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/sauber-inset-stainless-steel-sink-single-bowl-403-31976

    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago

      as the stud wall is only 75mm deep, I won't be able to hide any pipes in there.


      Only other alternative is to have the waste pipe for the sink running to the side and on the actual stud wall. Not the best solution - not sure of the drop it needs or if it can run straight along to the top of the floor and we can sort of box it in? LOL.

    • Rose Williams
      5 years ago

      Yes you can get a single sink AND a washing machine into a 1100 space ... All you do is have a sink with the waste to one side, and fit it sideways. If however, the basin is in the way, as you suspect, just raise the surface so the bowl is above the washing machine. I suggest that unless you are super tall, look for a shallow basin. I did all this, but my basin is 200mm deep catering type sink so not ideal for the height of the surface.


      The bath... if youre only using the 1600 bath to wash the dog and dont mind stepping over, or have small children, great. However, if you bathe the dog elsewhere, or prefer showering the dog in here, I would go for a walk-in shower because it will make the room look far bigger and the shower pace quite generous.

    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      Hi Rose,

      The sink would be on the left side in a 450 unit and the the washing machine to the right of the unit/sink . So it shouldn’t effect the waste as this is under the sink, no?

      The bathroom isn’t for the dogs - it’s for the two bedrooms as we are a bungalow. But yes, our plan is to have a walk in shower as we don’t really do baths anyway (maybe once a year I think I might like one, ha ha) and it would be handy if we did need to wash the dogs in it ;0)
    • Rose Williams
      5 years ago

      I just meant that you dont have to fully contain the sink bowl within the unit and dont have to put up with a tiny sink. Bath... I am completely the opposite, a house without a bath is hell to me!

    • Jonathan
      5 years ago
      I don’t understand why there is a problem. If you can get waste from your bathroom sink to the outside wall why can’t the utility sink waste follow the same route?
    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      @Jonathan - the bathroom sink isn’t there yet but we can box in the small amount of pipe that will show in the bathroom between the sink and the edge of the bath/shower as it won’t be much anyway.

      The issue with the utility as I designed it originally is that the sink is on the back wall and so the waste would have to run to the right side then across the whole of the partition wall to get outside.

      I’m just presuming that the waste pipe has to have a permanent drop on it? Ie a gradient? Or can it be run flat across the floor??



      I have to get another plumber here on Monday to have a look but wanted to look at options before then so I knew what to ask him .
    • Ribena Drinker
      5 years ago
      last modified: 5 years ago

      Couldn't you have the sink where the washing machine is on your plan? If you had it orientated at right angles to the boiler, you would still get the benefit of the draining board and still get to the sink (which would now be facing into the kitchen) then you could put the waste out of the side wall.


      Or even just put a sink in that corner with the draining board under the boiler.

    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      Yes the sink could go there if I can fit the sink and washing machine together.
      The issue with that is that I lose a low level empty area by not being able to stack the washer/dryer together as the dog bed was going to go either under the boiler OR next to the sink. And the recycling/large bin was in the other spot.
      If I put a sink and washer together then it only leaves a small 500mm spot for the dogs or bins but not both :0(

      I also didn’t want to have the washing machine on the back wall because it’s next to the lounge and it’s noisy. Argh.

      If anyone can work out how to get the pipes from one side to the other wall as per my original layout, they will get a gold star AND a virtual hug, ha ha ha
    • PRO
      User
      5 years ago

      I'm disagreeing with why it can't be done as planned. Both methods will work as waste pipe for a sink is only 32mm and will fit in your stud wall. Plus, I've never found concrete that won't come up with a Kango on it..........it may be hard work but it is do'able. I'd ask again, maybe the plumber won't be able to do it for himself, but one of the builders will surely?


    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      It was the builder that said the stud wouldn’t be deep enough and that the concrete under the floor was too thick, lol. But he’s not the one doing the plumbing or building the stud so ... ;0)

      I know we will have to cut some holes in the wall joists but that will be ok no? Even in a 75mm wall?? Then it can just go out the brick wall.
    • PRO
      User
      5 years ago

      MATH is correct. Nothing against following original plan. Waste pipe inside wall or bathroom side as there has to be waste almost on whole length of the wall (from basin trap) , I think Jonathan mentioned that solution above. Washing machine can be connected through stud as well. I am personally not big fan of stacking appliances and I would rather go for straight layout against long wall. Bin,corner unit with corner sink, WM, TD, but I have no idea what is under the boiler so may not work. Or if you prefer stacking start from WM and TD on the left and follow with base units.

    • PRO
      User
      5 years ago

      I dint want to edit but one more thing, this radiator will be completely wasted money there. It will not heat the kitchen for sure and takes a lot of space.

    • PRO
      User
      5 years ago

      Tani- yes to the above..............Maybe the builder wasn't too fussed about digging up the concrete, but then if he hasn't tried, how does he know how hard it is. Genuinely, i've never found anything i couldn't kango through. I managed to angle grind my way through granite earlier this year!! Tell him to eat some spinach before he starts. Ha ha. Besides which, I gather you're up for a challenge, go hire one ( it's about £15 a day round here ), and do it yourself, prove him wrong............it's really not difficult to get the hang of.


      Also, agree with Oliver's kitchens and Bedrooms re the radiator. The kitchen will be warm any way due to the heating in that room, the bathroom sits behind the Utility and you therefore, in my opinion do not need one at all in that room.

    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      Re the layout - I didn’t think there would be much space in front of the WM if I had them all across the back. Seemed a bit cramped and can’t bend over to get to things? Maybe not - will have to have a think on that!

      It’s not the concrete outside that was an issue as that was all dug up for drains to go in and has now been put back.
      I think it was on the other side of the wall in the floor? So if they put the pipe under the floor, the wall there was too thick to core out. He was at it for some time and gave up, ha ha. Will re investigate though!

      Re radiator - I put one there (standard rad and not a towel warmer) because ... there is no heating that side of the kitchen at all and the small one puts out quite a lot of heat. So we could leave the sliding door open to keep that area warm (and especially in winter if the dogs sleep in that room)
      That was it really. Why wouldn’t it work there though? The thickness of it?
    • PRO
      User
      5 years ago

      Tani, the area is far away from any opening, that will be very unlikely circulating cold/hot air. Area itself will be warm due to WM/TD and boiler. You will not efficiently heat the kitchen , only waste the energy or you end up turning it off. You will probably gain a lot more if you put vertical radiator on the outside wall in the corridor behind the wall with sink ,if you are sure it will be must have item to do. Is the plumber a registered heating engineer? He should calculated how it will affect heating output and advise you.

    • PRO
      User
      5 years ago

      I think i'd push for your original plan..............we have a motto here 'No such thing as can't', it may take longer, but it can be done. I had to go through the floor and the outside wall with my Utility for the washing machine and Tumble dryer, it's not easy but with the right equipment you get there eventually.

    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      Great, thanks guys!
      Will ditch the rad in there then and speak to my new plumber to confirm about the stud walls.
      Once the new kitchen is in place we can rip up the old floor and see if we can drill out that way as well. :0)
    • obobble
      5 years ago
      Tani - I don't see why you would need to contain the waste pipe in the wall. Could the pipe just not go straight through the wall into the bathroom and join up with the sink waste pipe if you are surface routing that one? You could keep your original layout. I agree with other commentators about the waste of space for the rad. If you really want something maybe a small towel rail mounted above work surface height, you could maybe then get some shelf units along that wall or at least some hanging hooks. Re washing dogs, we had a hot and a cold outside tap fitted outside our boot room and use a hose pipe and Y fitting to give them a warm wash outside.
    • minipie
      5 years ago

      One thought on the rad - we are having an electric towel rail in our titchy utility, this will be used to give the utility some heating when the main downstairs heating is off, to help with drying laundry. Also will give a place to dry off wet coats, shoes etc. You might find it useful for these reasons?

      However that’s obviously a “nice to have” so it may be the space or money could be better used in another way...

    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      @obobble - brilliant idea! Never thought about doing that! LOL. One pipe is much easier than routing two out the same wall. I guess we can just hide the one behind the wall then on the bathroom side??

      Yes to the hot water tap outside as our boiler is on the right wall for it so we will just get a fitting for it for them and maybe a hook on the wall to tie their leads to it as they hate being washed, ha ha.
    • Tani H-S
      Original Author
      5 years ago
      @minipie - won’t be much room in the utility for drying clothes as such perhaps (got a tumble dryer) BUT that goes give me an idea for the understairs area and putting an electric one in there.

      Hard to say how cold it will be downstairs in Winter in the day when the heating isn’t on and if we will need one. Could get a plug on the wall for a plug in flat electric heater in case? And put shelf’s above it. Or hooks to dry the dog towels etc and things that can’t go in the dryer (like my wool jumper I dried yesterday that now looks like a kids one, :0/
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