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Renovating Flooring DIY

Oak Flooring Disaster - What Now?

5 years ago

Hi All

I recently had an oak floor installed in my Edwardian terraced house throughout the downstairs hallway and living areas. Prior to the joiner laying the floor, the builder layed a self levelling screed over the existing quarry/mosaic tiles in the hallway and living room. The floor failed spectacularly shortly after, expanding and buckling due to the moisture coming through the screed from the tiles underneath (no damp proofing installed at any stage).

Setting the subsequent arguments and ensuing legal battle to one side (damages run into the thousands), I'm scratching my head about what to do next. The floor was also layed in the front reception room which was already concreted with a DPM so it's been fine, I'd therefor like to re-do the oak floor in the quarry tiled living room at least (possibly have some kind of tiles for the hallway though). I should add the existing tiles are all too far gone with various sections vandalised by previous owners! I'd appreciate some advice on my following options...

Option 1 - Cover tiles with epoxy damp proof membrane and screed over top to self level. Cheapest way to safely install wood floor but question marks over long term suitability, some tiles may be slightly loose with hollow sections etc.

Option 2 - Dig up all tiles and 250mm of soil/rubble underneath and have the whole lot concreted with a proper DPM.

Option 3 - Hybrid of the two, screed the hallway and just tile it, but dig up living room to concrete for a wood floor.

I've attached plenty of pics and I'd be very interested to hear from any wood flooring experts. If I went down the concrete option would this be sufficient on it's own or would it still need a screed on top too?

Any help much appreciated!

Steve

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Featured Answer

PRO

FAIRFAX FLOORING

5 years ago

Hi,

if this is "home forever", anything less but Option 2 is just cutting corners in hope to save some money, which could come back at some point an bite back. Do it properly once and you'll never worry or look back on it. All the best.

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Comments (12)

PRO
Italian Design Ltd
5 years ago
Hi Steve,

What's the floor moisture now? Do you know the moisture of the floor after it was levelled?

It depends on what you want to do and what budget you have. From experience it's often difficult to fix other people jobs and it's better to start from scratch with a proper flat screed and DPM. That will give you peace of mind.

In any case, you do need DPM under wood flooring.

It may be worth to employ expert contractors on moisture proofing your floor rather than a builder.

Then you can fit wood flooring either glued down or floating with underlay and vapour barrier.

Option 1 is ok as long as the DPM is applied correctly.

Hope you'll get this sorted soon
obobble
5 years ago
In our house, a waterproof cover of pitch mastic had been applied (probably in the 70s) over quarry tiles which had been laid on sand. Over the years where the tiles had been lifted and relaid for CH pipes etc there was some settlement and heave so that the floor became uneven with some v noticeable ridges. When we refurbed we had the floor dug out and replaced with dpc and concrete. If having any new depth of concrete remember you have to wait until it is fullly dried and cured before laying flooring on top. Can't remember the exact calculation ( x days per y mm of depth) but it was a couple of months for us.
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kwg kwg
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
Hello, sorry to hear about your experience.

I'm not a floor expert but wanted to share my experience and thoughts.

If you plan to screed the floor again, it might be wise to research how long the screed really takes to dry before laying a wooden floor because even though it is dry to walk on, there may still be moisture in the screed. If you lay the DPM, then add screed on top, the moisture only has one way to go which is upwards into the wood floor again.

Why do you need the self levelling screed? Is it because the floor is completely unlevel in one part of the room compared to another?

Just from my own experience, I've just had my kitchen, hallway and extension installed with engineered floors back in October. We had a chimney breast removed and this chimney sat on a concrete floor, the rest of the floor had wood floor joists. As some of the concrete floor was disturbed during the building work, the builder said he was going to fix it by filling the gap with concrete but lay DPM in the between the joists so the damp would not go through to the joists.

When the floor fitter came to check the site, I told him this was the plan for the area, he immediately said the floor would not be dry in time ( floor to be installed a week after the concrete ) and said he would not install the wood floor in that area as it would take months to dry and the moisture would go into the wood. The existing concrete also had some damp ( not sure if this is normal ), he used a damp meter. The builder was obviously not happy with this as he said it takes 2 days to dry and there was a bit of standoff off between the fitter and the builder. The floor fitter said yes it might take 2 days to dry to walk on but moisture is still in the concrete. Eventually I had to get the builder to remove the concrete floor section and replace it with joist. In this situation I decided to trust the floor fitter as this was his field of expertise.

My point is, even if you have a screed, I think you also need some DPM or something in between the screed and the wood that stops the moisture from rising into the wood.

You could also go to some independent flooring shops if you still need to look for new flooring as they are usually very knowledgable, explain your situation with the screed, tiles etc and they would should be able to advise you what to do to avoid the same thing happening again.

Did you have the floorboards floating or glued?
obobble
5 years ago
It depends on the mix but if you check out the info on the St Gobain website it is at least one day per mm of depth so 2 inches would take 50 days minimum, 4 inches 100 days minimum. If you think it's had enough time, put a plastic sheet down for a couple of days and see if you get condensation under it. Don't put flooring down if you do.
Steve B
Original Author
5 years ago
Thanks for the input guys. I've pretty much accepted I'm going to have to rip it all up to get the best result. However, even if I do install a new concrete floor with DPM, do I have to screed on top of that too with a surface DMP? It's been recommended to me that I do as this will give the best finish. In the front room the floor was laid directly onto rough concrete (albeit with DPM) and I've noticed it feels hollow in places, so I might be ripping that up too....
PRO
FAIRFAX FLOORING
5 years ago
Hi Steve,

make sure to get someone who is doing this on regular basis. Once site is inspected, they will be able to advise you on what materials to use. As if run of the mill materials are used, they could take ages to dry, while with someone like "Mapei" or even "F.Ball" you can use accelerators, which will speed-up drying process. If new concrete incorporates DPM, and if it's done correctly, you will not need surface DPM in addition. However, I would let the flooring contractor aware on what has been used below, as he/she might decide for only smoothing-levelling thin layer to be applied as a final coat. Good luck.
Steve B
Original Author
5 years ago
So I've gone ahead and lifted the quarry tiles, but it seems it's concrete underneath rather than rubble/soil that I'd been told to expect? You can see in the photos the imprint of the tiles on the concrete. I imagine it's just a thin screed over hardcore that was laid when the house was built in 1905? I'm wondering whether this would be suitable to apply a DPM and screed to obtain a good finish, or carry on and dig out? I don't want to start digging and find it's solid concrete all the way!

webuser_667193874's ideas · More Info

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Richard
5 years ago
How about drilling down through the screed with an sds to test its depth?
PRO
U.studios
5 years ago
Can you not just fit a waterproof membrane, possible cement or screed over it and then put down your flooring?
Steve B
Original Author
5 years ago
Hi folks, bit of an update on this one. As you can see in the pics I've been digging and it's ready to receive a new concrete floor in the second reception room and hall (it was hard work...).

I've got a bit of a question about what to do with front room now which is where the wood was laid direct on the existing concrete floor. Digging by the doorway has revealed this concrete is only 2 inches thick with the DPM appearing to be laid directly on top of soil.. This obviously isn't an ideal construction and given that the floor has failed at the edges of the room (buckled up slightly with hollow sound underneath, held in place by the glue), I'm seriously considering whether I should just dig it all up and get all 3 rooms done properly. If I lift the front room flooring too, it's almost worth getting the concrete re-done?

I'm also questioning whether I'll ever truly eradicate damp to the point where installing a wood floor is viable. What's to stop moisture seeping in from the walls? Should wood flooring generally be avoided in old houses?

Thanks
kwg kwg
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
What has happened to your floor joists? Did you take them out as well?

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