open plan flooring

6 years ago

A dilemma I'm sure many of you have already had to go through - or have coming up.

Our extension (8.2m x 4.2 m) plus existing living area will need new flooring.

We didn't want to spend out on underfloor heating BUT, I know that a space that big will be cold if we don't, and we will regret it. So that opens up having alternatives to the laminate we planned to put down (warm glossy walnut) with a tiled section behind the kitchen (as I have a tendency to drop knives in the floor ), but my husband likes the idea of tiles all over.

I hate the idea of tiles (polished concrete is nice but way too expensive ) as when the heating wasn't on, they would be cold and hard underfoot. The don't look that homely either - although I guess the replica wood ones do.

Ideally I want to keep the flooring the same across the 3 rooms as much as possible, although I know the kitchen section will be different but you won't see much of that.

Cost is another issue. Solid wood flooring is too expensive. Engineered wood is not so bad - especially when compared with good tiles. (Which seem to be the most expensive!)

Laminate is the cheapest but is not as durable and won't add any value to the house ...

So tell me what you all chose and why? What was the deciding factor? Any regrets?

Featured Answer

Sam N

6 years ago

This is an image of what we are putting in the bathroom, although laid in line rather than in a brick pattern. To give an example of a more affordable option, this is costing £280, fully fitted with a flex 700 self levelling flexible compound layed underneath first, then the tiles and grout strips as in he photo. The bathroom is probably only 5m sq, so I guess this is still not a cheap option as such, I know budgets are totally subjective/individual, but we are planning to stay in this property for a long time and plan to only do this once..

Polyflor Welsh Riven Slate

Similar to this is going in the ensuite

Ensuite - Karndean

And finally the parquet for the openplan area, kitchen and hallway. This is more expensive, parquet always is because of the more time consuming laying....but the Vusta was considerably cheaper than the Karndean...I just hope it looks as good as the Karndean when down and lasts as well... fingers crossed! (It also looks more orange in this pic than in real life, they do a lovely dark walnut version, which I liked...but I was too scared it was too dark and I would end up dusting/cleaning it everyday!)

Vusta parquet

I bought my last house after just one viewing, I loved it and was really happy there, hopefully it will be the same for you. Good luck with the renovations. I caught up with your last renovation when I was new to this site and just starting our works, it looked great!

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Comments (41)

Darren
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Hi - we had a similar dilemma and went for underfloor heating (worth the expense), and Karndean flooring (http://www.karndean.com/en-gb/floors/easy-fit-ranges/karndean-looselay-longboard), for whole of downstairs except for the office and playroom. It looks like wood, however is a lot more versatile, and great with underfloor heating. The looselay wide plank option we chose, are not actually glued down (except for edges), so if we need to replace its easy.
PRO
User
6 years ago
We too have Karndean ( ~Van Gogh - antique pine ) -

, we've now had it for around 6/7 years, indestructible! Dogs, grand kids on ride alongs, chairs scraping in and out...............awesome.
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Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
@Darren - wow, your kitchen looks amazing!

Thanks both. Not even looked at karndean yet as I know it's quite expensive.
However - I guess it's less expensive to lay than tiling is it?

Does it just click together like laminate?

I just presumed as it was a kind of vinyl floor that it wouldn't be as durable or would let water in the joints... ?
kikiamack
6 years ago
When we renovated we put wet UFH throughout our ground floor. We knew we wanted a wood or good wood look. We wanted the same floor throughout for a cohesive look and no door thresholds. We didn’t want tiles because the floor would be cold underfoot during the summer when the UFH is off. We ruled out engineered wood as a friend’s floor had swollen and buckled in her kitchen after a leak. So, we went with Karndean Van Gogh Classic Oak. This is a glue down floor. Very pleased with the look of it and it feels nice underfoot. Karndean has several different ranges which are suitable for different uses and therefore there will be different prices and warranty periods depending on the range.
Darren
6 years ago
Tani - it's not quite click together, but it is relatively simple to install. However the subfloor does have to be smooth, so likely some floor preparation required, possibly latexing. We had 2 guys do 60m2 in two days, one for the latexing, one for laying. It is very durable and watertight.
User
6 years ago
We also have wet UFH & Karndean...lovely warm floor that people assume is wood.
Emily
6 years ago
I’ve had Karndean put in before and in this house I’ve inherited it in living room and hall and it is very hard wearing and easy to keep looking good. Plus these quality vinyls mean you can have the same flooring in kitchen area. I like quality vinyl better than engineered wood even.
Juliet Docherty
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
We used very wide plank oak engineered wood in lounges (finished with Osmo in one room and Bona traffic in another) and in hall, kitchen and dining room have large vitrified unglazed porcelain. The oak is latexed down onto the concrete sub floor as I have prefer it to feel solid. The vitrified porcelain is about as practical as you can get as it is super tough and so forgiving, also as the grout lines are tiny it looks like concrete. We don't have underfloor heating but our house is warm and all wear Haflinger cork slippers! I do have something similar to Karndean in my studio and it looks fab, is so tough and very practical - it's not the same as wood though.
Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
oo thank you all for your feedback - that's been really helpful as I had forgotten all about Karndean.

I do like the idea of a real wood floor but then I can't face the maintenance as we have sanded the last couple of houses we have had and we both said 'never again' haha.

Will check the Karndean out and hope they have something we like...
dorsetdor
6 years ago
Karndean is such easy maintenance and doesn’t fade in patches like wood can when exposed to light
Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
So I went into a local flooring place and was told that Karndean is not as easy to maintain as I believed. He said that the coating on it which is put on to protect it and help keep it from scratching, will need to be removed and replaced every so often?!?

Apparently it comes as a kit to apply on and it is that coating which takes all the scratches etc so the vinyl under it, keeps shiny new.

** edit

I have just googled it and yes, every 6-12 months they recommend you clean and refresh it using their kits (presumably it strips the coating off then re-applies it again).

Have any of you done this and it is as easy as just washing the floor or is it tricky to do?
PRO
User
6 years ago
Ours isn't coated in anything and hasn't been treated. I remember the installer saying that you could have a shiny coating on it at the time he installed. However, it was to match all of our natural wood skirting and architraves. He said it was optional and not necessary. Maybe that's what the guy meant? This is what it says on Karndean's website:- Karndean
minnie101
6 years ago
Hi Tani. If you're going for an industrial look I think I'd go for wood, preferably a chevron parquet although laying costs are dearer. I must admit I'm not sure how the tiles and wood are fitted like this as I thought engineered wood still needed an expansion gap but have seen loads of similar pics! I've just added the 2nd pic (in relation to your other post!) as I love this kitchen with the combination of materials and what looks to be tadelakt/polished plaster on the walls. Alternatively there are a lot of warm concrete effect tiles around if you introduce wood elsewhere. My reading of the karndean cleaning is for heavy use or perhaps floors that aren't regularly cleaned so dirt builds up. My mum has had one for over 2 years and hers definitely doesn't need a deep clean
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dorsetdor
6 years ago
Never done the karndean treatment- think it makes the floor shiny
Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
Oh that's good to know, thank you.

@Minnie - we did actually pick up some samples of a pale grey herringbone floor yesterday which I saw in a showroom and loved. It's not solid wood though but we are going to design the kitchen first and see what floor works with it best before we decide
Sam N
6 years ago
I've had Amtico and Karndean, I never used the special cleaning kit they suggested, a bit of Flash in hot water and they never suffered any ill effects. The Amtico is in a house I still go back to, it's been down 15 years and still looks great. The Karndean has been down in bathroom and kitchen for 10 years in a house that is now a rental and I can honestly say still looks brand new. For the current (and hopefully final renovation project :-/ ) we have stuck with LVT but are trying some different brands, mostly to save on costs... lets hope we don't live to regret it, but I have done a fair bit of research. Amtico and Karndean have been around longer but there are some great alternative products on the market now. We are sticking with Karndean for the ensuite, Polyflor Colonial for the bathroom, and Vusta Towhouse Parquet for the majority of the downstairs of the house. Fitting starts tomorrow, I will post some photos when complete. I am a real fan of LVT, real wood is lovely, but for areas such as kitchen and bathrooms I like to be able to give floors a good wash with a big bucket of hot soapy water! :-)
Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
@Sam N - just had to Google LVT - so is that similar to karndean ie same idea, but just ones other brands make?
Ie we saw something like that in b&q yesterday whilst having a general browse. They were like laminate floor but classed as vinyl planks that clicked together.

I wasn't sure if they would be any good as I've never seen anyone mention them, but they were around the £20-25psqm price
Sam N
6 years ago
Hi Tani, sorry, LVT stands for luxury vinyl tile, in separate tile or plank format, which is generally laid with adhesive over a well prepared base. (I'm not an expert, so please correct me if I'm wrong...I've just spent forever looking at flooring.. :-) ) There are many brands who produce LVT, Karndean and Amtico are probably the best known, but there are many good quality products around which are not as well known partly due to not having such big marketing budgets from what I can tell! LVT can be laid straight onto plyboard if the surface is good, clean and level, the joints would usually be feathered so that they do not show through the tile over time. Otherwise a flexible self levelling compound is laid over whatever subfloor you have to prep the floor for the tiles. Either should give an excellent, waterproof and durable long lasting finish, especially if laid by a professional. I am sure these could be laid by savvy DIYers....but I would not be brave enough, also in some cases if the floors are not laid by approved fitters, this would void the warranty in the case of any issues. I have however, never had any issues. There are now also some plank versions as you mentioned, which click together rather than being stuck down, I have no real experience of these, so I cannot really comment on them. Lots of people on here have these systems and seem to be happy with them. I was steered away from them in flooring shops, but I wonder if this is because they can be more easily laid by homeowners and they want to sell something with the fitting...but that may just be me being cynical! ;-) LVT really does not have to be astronomical anymore, Amtico can go up to £80psm :-O ... but you really do not have to spend that much. The Polyflor we are having in the bathroom for example is £14.00 psm, obviously fitting adds to the cost a fair bit, but I still think it's really reasonable. Sorry for the long post, hope it's helpful, I drove myself bonkers looking at floors!!...I'm now having a nightmare finding a carpet I like for the bedrooms lol. I'll try to attach some images of what we are having fitted. Sam
Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
Hi Sam,

Ah thank you for explaining. Yes I know - flooring is a nightmare! We bought our house after only one viewing but it's going to take months choosing flooring
Tani H-S
Original Author
6 years ago
Thank you so much Sam for that. Really appreciated :)

I would definitely have to get a pro to lay it if we went for the LVT style flooring as we aren't experienced in laying it. Sounds complex :/

The parquet looks lovely as well - an investment on time but it has such an amazing effect.

Did you find that Vusta has as many good reviews as Karndean?

Any reason you didn't go for a high quality laminate or engineered wood floor?
Sam N
6 years ago
There definitely are not as many reviews on the Vusta, but I did not come across any negative ones. I think it is less reviewed due to being less well known, Amtico and Karndean have been the market leaders for so long. Funnily enough when I first laid Karndean probably 10 years ago, I was quite nervous about using it as I had only used Amtico before and Karndean was the new kid in the block at that time (to me anyway), but it goes to show that less well known does not necessarily mean lesser quality. I think it also depends on how hard wearing you need it to be, we have no pets or kids and I don't roller skate indoors ;-) so we are probably fairly light users...although that said I have the major clumsiness gene...the Karndean in my kitchen had all sorts dropped/thrown at it..... including a le creuset casserole dish which packs some considerable weight, if that didn't dent it I'm not sure what would. From what I understand, the difference in qualities comes down to how thick the wear layer over the top is, and we are talking mm and fractions of mm's.

Regarding why I did not go for laminate, I've had bad experiences with it scratching and de-laminating, although in fairness this was some years ago and probably a low quality cheap product. My friend has a high quality laminate which I originally thought was wood it looks so good.

As for engineered wood, I hear lots of people on here who have it and love it, and also have it in kitchens without experiencing any issues. But I also have a friend who has a beautiful engineered wood floor throughout her openplan and kitchen but it has started to watermark around the sink and there are areas where it has swelled a little, however, I am sure this can be avoided as some people report no issues at all.

We have gone for water fed UFH downstairs which works well with the LVT, but I did not want to got to the expense of underfloor heating for the bathrooms upstairs....that is another beauty of LVT, it is never cold underfoot. In my previous kitchen it was laid over a cold concrete floor but never felt cold. Oh... and I had a major escape of water in that house, woke up one morning to 2 inches of water right across the kitchen floor! :-( The walls needed re-plastering and I was certain the floor would have to come up, but a week or so with a humidifier in there and you would never have know the floor had been submerged! No lifting of tiles, no damp smell, good as new.
Tani H-S thanked Sam N
PRO
Floor Monster
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Hi Tani,

We have a couple of Engineered Walnut options currently in stock. If you have an idea of the area size we would try and look at the price for you and give the best price possible (the larger the area the more generous we can be)

We have Walnut Herringbone in stock now, see images below of this board that has been recently fitted into our clients home.

We also have the Engineered Walnut in more tradition planks of 125mm and also have an option in 150mm and even 190mm. Perfect for living room, kitchen and halls.

If you are looking for Walnut options in laminate. Here is one of our more popular boards, Staunton Walnut, this flooring comes with underlay pre-attached making it even easier to lay. This laminate is an AC4, which comes with a 25 year warranty. Mean it is just as hard wearing as any wooden floor.

We also have another option calledWolfson, this also has the underlay attached to the back and has a 25 year warranty, this is slightly darker in tone compared to the Staunton Walnut (above).

We would be more than happy to send you FREE samples if any of these board are of interest.

If you do have any queries on regards to your flooring and want to run anything past us please feel free to give us a call on 0844 33 504 33 or you can drop us an email, our email is Info@floormonster.co.uk.

Kind Regards,

Floor monster Team
kikiamack
6 years ago
Just a couple of things to add. We have never used the Karndean cleaning / polishing kit either, was worried about it being extra shiny. I think to an extent, most floors that are not stone are going to get the odd scratch, but how noticeable they are depends on the finish and shade of the product. My hairdresser has Karndean down in his salon, in a dark industrial style wood. You can imagine the wear and tear that gets. When you walk in the door, the floor looks lovely. There are scratches, but you have to be really staring at the floor to notice them. We used to have a light oak engineered floor in our hall with a Teflon coating on, and that showed scratches really badly. Re cost, I know you’re having a lot of work done. Our builder sourced our Karndean direct from them, and even with the commission amount we had agreed, it came out far cheaper than our local flooring place could supply it for. I can’t lay my hands on the exact figures,unfortunately. Lastly, Karndean sell a a few herringbone parquet styles, but I’m pretty certain they are the most expensive Karndean option.
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
@carolina - well I can’t say I’ve ever had a problem knowing my gender! I’m definitely female, LOL! ?!?

The flooring is all done now though thanks.
Fran H
4 years ago
Tani, what floor did you go for? Could you post photos?
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
It was a cavalio flooring commercial grade as was thicker for our uneven floor. They do some amazing wood like finishes and worked out at about £21 psqm I think. Maybe less as we bought boxes into the next price drop. They are made by polyfloor.

Looks warmer or cooler depending on where the light hits it and isn’t too brown or yellow or grey.
Jonathan
4 years ago
Nice to see it looking like a home
Fran H
4 years ago
Wow, looks great. We currently have a similar dilemma. Half the ground floor has UFH. We like the Minoli Tree-Age white porcelain tile in herringbone, which would be okay on the UFH in the kitchen/diner and hall, but not underfoot in the lounge. We’ll definitely have a look at Polyfloor.
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
Tani- that’s beautiful! I really like it. Looks great against the kitchen. Am going to order a sample
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
You need to look for cavalio as they don’t brand it under polyfloor as such.
There are two ranges and the commercial one is 2.5mm thick I think vs 2mm domestic. The latter is fine if you have a completely flat surface with no bumps/ridges at all.

They will send a sample book out then either a small sample (A6 size) or full sample as well direct from the company.
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
I was wondering, as it didn't appear that the 2 companies were related!

I've ordered samples from both - lol! did you get the tiles in the end or the loose-lay? (I mean I've ordered a bunch of samples of both!) but decreased fitting time & better noise reduction sounds appealing if otherwise both seem good and not too much more expensive.. Will have to see!
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
Yes they don’t advertise it for some reason - my fitter told me it was polyfloor as he recognised the samples, LOL. Much cheaper though and he was impressed by the quality.

We went for the glue down version as the click one is too thick for us as the kitchen is all in so we only left space under the edges for the 2.5mm.
They used a high heat glue as we are south facing and with two of them, fitted it all in one day. Was 50sqm of flooring as well.
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
I missed that you had replied Sorry! (I now seem to get notifications anyone I follow posts anything! regardless of whether it's a post I've commented on or not - makes it very difficult to track!)

Wow... I'm impressed how quickly they got it all fitted! Got the samples today.. I think there's one I like (tho doesn't have quite the same level of warmth as the Karndean flooring I liked!) So we'll see how prices are when we get to a point of choosing :-)
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
Hi Gabby - yes I noticed that as well re the notifications!! Ridiculous! Maybe there is something in settings that stops that otherwise I will just have to unfollow everyone, urgh.

Whats the name of the one you liked from the samples?

There was some nice Karndean BUT they were well out of our price range so it always depends on your budget of course. We wanted a warm but neutral floor and this one looks both warm and cool sometimes. Originally I wanted a rich warm floor to balance out the grey but the orange tones clashed with the units and made them look too blue/retro so we decided to go with this one instead.
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
The Karndean one I liked was Van Gogh - Birch

The Cavalio is Wild natural oak.

Yea I suspect the saving we'll make losing the Karndean will be very appealing unless the builders can get us an incredible deal! But even then, even if we only saved £200 that's still gives us more room with other things! It all adds up so quickly!
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
Oh yes I also got a sample of that and it was quite pale. Ours is the next tone up so might be worth a check ie authentic rustic oak. 2944 in projectline range. Might be work asking them for a full size sample though as the colour as my small sample didn't really show all the other tones and grains properly. ie it looked a bit wishy washy compared to the full piece.
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
I feel like I've just gone one their website and found a whole other row of options I missed before! (or maybe they didn't look as good on my phone when I ordered the first lot! lol)

Thanks! Will see how we get on with this new batch of samples!

What did you do with all your flooring samples in the end? Karndean had a nice free return address label... not sure what to do with the dozens of other ones tho, other than putting them in the bin which seems a bit of a waste!
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
I also find it slightly annoying that we have a lovely large oak dining table, that I never thought was too orange before, but compared to all the floors we like, it definitely looks more and more orange! But don't think I'd want the entire floor to be that colour! and it would never match completely! oh well.
Tani H-S
Original Author
4 years ago
Well we paid for 3 large samples from the Karndean store which we could have taken back but it’s a trek there so can’t be bothered. Thrown the small ones away but not sure what to do with these larger ones yet.

Cavalio normally send out a sample book - did you not get one?
Gabby Wong
4 years ago
No, didn't get a sample book - just the individual samples I ordered..

We've been using some of ours as random additional coasters! Yea, I can see a lot of ours ending up in the bin, just seems a bit of a waste